Last Saturday night I found myself halfway catatonic and all-the-way hungover on my friend’s couch in Annapolis. The Navy-ND game had ended with an Irish victory and about a half dozen of us sitting in the M&T Bank Stadium parking lot trying to sate our drunkenness with the false promise of charred animal flesh and leftover ginger ale from the Dark and Stormy’s–a traditional Navy tailgate drink, DANGEROUS stuff–that first kicked off the drinking some eight hours prior.
Thanks to a sinus infection that prevented one of us from drinking, we secured a DD and managed to safely return to Annapolis from Baltimore. (Although not without a belated stop at the Green Turtle in Edgewater for a couple rounds of Golden Tee and, for whatever reason, more beer and more Dark and Stormy’s.) As I sat there on the couch, ESPN started running its highlights.
The Minnesota-Ohio State recap came on with the headline, “Troy Smith added to his Heisman Trophy resume by running for one touchdown and throwing for another to lead No. 1 Ohio State past Minnesota 44-0.” Almost as an aside they printed Smith’s actual stats for the game: 14 for 21, 183 yds, 1 TD passing, 1 TD rushing.
That’s when it dawned on me: the national college football media is now officially blindly conceding the Heisman Trophy to Troy Smith.
Look, I’m not disputing that Smith is a superb all-around athlete and an efficient QB. And if he pulls off the win against Michigan, and does so in impressive fashion, the Heisman will be and should be his to lose.
But come on, ESPN!
Three of the four highlights you showed from the OSU-Minnesota game were of Troy Smith, and then your lead-in paragraph on ESPN.com actually used the phrase, “Troy Smith buffed up his Heisman Trophy numbers by running for one touchdown and throwing for another…” All this, for a 14-21, 183-yds, 1-TD game? Great, he had a rushing TD too. That’s what you call “buffing up” your numbers? Nice to see this “dual threat” phenom get his FIRST FREAKING RUSHING TOUCHDOWN OF THE SEASON–you know, now that we’re nine games into the season and all, and now that Smith has played the likes of Northern Illinois, Cincinnati, Bowling Green and Indiana.
Once I sobered up, I decided to look at the numbers. Maybe ESPN just forgot to mention that Quinn’s current streak of 169 consecutive passes without an interception leads all Div I-A QBs by a considerable margin. Maybe I was just imagining that Quinn, projected out over a 12-game regular season, would have an obvious statistical edge over Troy Smith. Or maybe I was simply being a naive “Domer Homer.”
Then again, maybe not…
Troy Smith, after nine games: 145-214, 1,898 yds, 67.8%, 22 TDs, 2 INTs, 1 rushing TD
Brady Quinn, after eight games: 193-303, 2,233 yds, 63.7%, 21 TDs, 4 INTs, 2 rushing TDs
—-
Troy Smith, vs. Penn State: 12-22, 115 yds, 1 TD, 2 INTs
Brady Quinn, vs. Penn State: 25-36, 287 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
—-
Troy Smith, vs. Michigan State: 15-22, 234 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
Brady Quinn, vs. Michigan State: 20-36, 319 yds, 5 TDs, 1 INT
—-
Troy Smith isn’t getting love from NFL scouts because he’s undersized and hasn’t shown a genuine ability to be a pro-style QB aside from the occasional highlight reel play. By his own admission, Smith actually scrambles to see over linemen’s heads, and all reports are he’s closer to 5’11” than the 6’1” touted by the Ohio State media guide. He could likely go after not only Quinn in the draft–which is a given–but after Brohm, Stanton, Edwards, Palko, and Ainge.
Meanwhile, as Heisman voters ejaculate at the altar of Ohio State, Brady Quinn will quietly surpass Smith in every passing category except for completion percentage all the while playing significantly better than Troy Smith against like opponents. (Granted, the Buckeyes signal caller has a shot to change this like-opponent equation dramatically with a win over Michigan.)
But hey, for the sake of argument let’s go ahead and concede the OSU win over Michigan. Let’s assume Troy Smith leads his Buckeyes into the BCS Championship Game and is the runaway Heisman winner. Based on their current numbers, the projected stats of Troy Smith and Brady Quinn would be as follows:
Troy Smith: 193-285, 2,531 yds, 67.7%, 29 TDs, 2 INTs, 1 rushing TD
Brady Quinn: 290-455, 3,350 yds, 64.4%, 32 TDs, 6 INTs, 3 rushing TDs
Wow, I can already envision Troy Smith’s acceptance speech:
“I want to thank everyone for this great honor. A personal shout out to Brady Quinn. [Troy turns to Brady.] Yes, I realize you threw for 800 more yards and three more touchdowns, that you even ran for more touchdowns than me, and that in the only meaningful comparison—our stats against like opponents—you embarrassed me, but I have a 3.3% better completion percentage, which was obviously too impressive for the Heisman voters to ignore.”
A preemptive congrats on your Heisman, Mr. Smith. See you in the second round of the NFL draft.
And as an added note, why not give every major award to an Ohio State player: the Jim Thorpe Award, the Butkus Award, etc. If the only overriding requirement for an award is that you’re an athletic and efficient player on the #1 team in the country, then why isn’t Ted Ginn, Jr. putting the finishing touches on his Biletnikoff acceptance speech?
(I have no doubt that somewhere in Columbus a red-faced Buckeyes fan is preparing a rambling defense of why Ginn, contrary to the belief of every living soul in the college and NFL football media, is superior to Calvin Johnson.)
Im closing comments on this post b/c there’s been too many ones I had to delete from both ND and OSU fans.
Differing opinions are more than welcome here, I delete posts people might find offensive or that have profanity. We more than welcome other fans to post here, but keep the posts clean and they won’t be deleted.
For the record, the Ohio State fans have taken this whole post way out of context. McSweeney’s point was that everyone in the media seems to have completely written off Quinn at this point when both are comparable quarterbacks.
To Notre Lame. It is quite clear that you can make up a very original name. If you’re trying to offend someone, its not working. Something I don’t understand is how everyone is obsessing over Troy Smith when he is 32 in the Top 50 list for the NFL First Round Draft Pick. Brady Quinn is number 1. Brady Quinn makes great plays and is truly one of (if not the) best quarterbacks in college football. Now I also think that Troy Smith is talented and I understand that he should be considered for the Heisman, I just think that Brady Quinn shows more of what a Heisman winner looks like. Troy Smith depends on his team to help him on plays. Quinn makes the plays happen. I hope he wins the Heisman.
To: Notre Lame
1. Weis is an Offensive guru (meaning throws the ball alot)
2. Notre Dame not a strong defense (meaning games are closer than Ohio State vs. Sisters of the Poor)
3. ND weak schedule? (Indiana / Minnesota / Illinois (almost lost) / Bowling Green / NIU / Cincy / Michigan St. / Northwestern..last time I looked they had Div. II talent
4. Douche Bag (meaning every Ohio State that is Jealous over Notre Dame again being in the spotlight)
5. Sleep Tight….and pray you don’t awake to find Troy stealing money, oh wait he already did that
The truth hurts, doesn’t it, Bucks fans?
After the Illinois game Troy Smith has gone from average to mediocre.
im from ohio my girlfriend goes to school in columbus and also lives on campus i party there and have a good time I also i bleed blue and gold and i have proof that all ohio state fans are the biggest idiots in the world most of the people at the games are freshman volley girls who ask each other what a 1st down is. its true just drive down 23 ill prove it go irish and brady will win the heisman
Nice sweaters Jimmy boy, your Offense is as unimaginative as your clothing. By the way, your punter gets more action than your 4th down calls (no guts). Take a shower and wash the yellow streak off your back, then grab for your nuts which you do not have, then maybe you can dream about all the rings Charlie has on his fingers compared to you.
By the way nice Big Ten schedule…Don’t worry GOLDENBOY, a Buckeye fan is one that either never played a sport except for “pocketpool” or thought by playing MADDEN Football you knew football. By the way, where were all you bandwagoners when COOPER was in town, oh that’s right you were drinking your draft beer and watching the Browns or Bengals….
I thought the Heisman goes to the best college football player but apparently it’s based on a comparison of common opponents.
By the way, Brady’s leading Troy in another category as well…number of picks returned for TD’s.
Go Bucks!
Regardless of what the North High Street Institution (otherwise known as OSU) does next week, it will just be another example of a padded schedule and a “gimme” win. Too bad Illinois couldn’t come back today. But mark my words, there will be the day that the air comes out of that balloon and the idiot fans will crawl back into the woodwork where they belong. I can’t stand Michigan but I hope they knock the snot out of Troy Smith and put him right on his ass because he’s just a good QB at best. OSU’s day will come and I will celebrate for a year when they go down. My greatest hope is that they experience 10-plus years of a downward slide just to prove the point that everyone in this state is a bandwagon fan. I’m always tickled to see a team like OSU fall from the top. And when they do, I’ll have to be just like the fans in this town and set my mattress on fire. God, I hate Ohio State!
Troy, way to show that you are the front runner against a powerhouse like Illinois. Zero TD’s – 1 Int. – barely 100 yards. Can’t wait till Michigan…It must also suck for the Buckeye nation that a home grown boy from Dublin, Ohio went out of state. Anyways, another subpar performance against another powerhouse like Northwestern (nice Conference)and a drubbing by Michigan will leave Troy searching for a home in the late rounds on NFL draft. Anyone catch ESPN pre-game: Q: ask of Troy was name the last three Heisman winners – 2 right and clueless on the other. I guess we know what he is not studying!
How about these stats of the day
T. Smith (OSU) 13-23, 107, 0 TD. big day Troy nice job
B. Quinn (ND) 23-35, 346, 4 TD
Basically the exact same opponent, nearly identical records.
How about some more fact.
–Troy Smith: 214 pass plays. 1898 Yds, 22 TDs, 2 ints.
8.87 Yds per attmpt, .10 Td’s, 0.009 ints.
–Brady Quinn: 303 pass plays. 2233 Yds, 21 TDs, 4 Ints.
7.37 Yds per attmpt, .07 Tds, .013 Ints.
Brady Quinn is an excelent QB.
Troy Smith is in a league of his own this year.
The only reason Brady has better stats is because he’s thrown nearly 100 more passes.
Smith – 8.9 YPA
Quinn – 7.4 YPA
Smith – 1 TD every 9 passes
Quinn – 1 TD every 14 passes
Smith – 1 INT every 107 passes
Quinn – 1 INT every 75 passes
Smith – 174.3 QB Rating
Quinn – 145.8 QB Rating
Smith: 9-0
Quinn: 7-1
CASE CLOSED!
Terry,
Wow, you’re a little off topic there aren’t you? Can you spell DEFENSIVE? I guess the thought of OSU picking up that seventh Heisman is more than you can stand. I thought this thread was about Smith and Quinn. Brady Quinn may well be the best quarterback in college football this year and would me a deserving winner of the O’Brien(?) Award. I believe that Troy Smith is the best football player, even if he isn’t the best QB. Smith brings more to OSU’s offense and team than most quarterbacks around the country. I don’t know how to quantify his leadership with statistics, other than 9-0. Brady definitely is the far better NFL prospect, but that’s not what the Heisman is about.
These are hypothetical ?s but worthing asking:
IF QUINN & SMITH WERE ON THE SAME TEAM, WHICH ONE WOULD START?
WHAT WOULD ND’S RECORD HAVE BEEN IN 2005 AND THIS YEAR HAD SMITH BEEN THEIR QB?
CONVERSELY, WHAT WOULD OSU’S RECORD HAVE BEEN BOTH LAST YEAR & THIS YEAR, HAD QUINN BEEN THEIR QB?
Keep this in mind: Smith doesn’t have to put up eye-popping #s b/c he’s supported by a fantastic running game, an overpowering O-Line & an unexpectedly awesome defense. On the other hand, Quinn’s O-Line has regressed since last year (look at those sack #s) and his defense is average or worse which means he’s constantly playing in shoot-outs w/ average or worse teams.
This is regarding the “Notre Lame”:
Can you spell JEALOUSY…Ohio State Fans, Media outlets, all other non-Notre Dame fans across the country. It must be a real “pain the ass” to imagine that the Most recognized University, with the Greatest Football program, Best fight song (voted year after year), is back in the spotlight after several mediocre years. With most National Championships (11) (Ohio State how many?), most Heisman Winners (7) (How many Ohio State-not “7” as you think), with the greatest names in College Football (Rockne, Leahy, Gipp, Four Horsemen, Montana, Brown)…the list is too many to recount. Now the Buckeyes..can you say Maurice Clarett (the Best known criminal to ever play College football)Oh yes, he won you a National Championship after decades of not having won one…feather in the Buckeye Nation cap!
By the way, when you won the Fiesta Bowl what did you do with the 14 million dollars…that’s right you kept maybe 1.5 million then gave the rest to the rest of the Big Ten teams…We kept it all! By the way speaking of “weak schedules”, try to play less than three “Ohio” schools a year…Playing talent that is on the Division 1-AA level is sad. Also, can you name who was the last Ohio State Alumnus elected to Pro Football Hall of Fame or won an MVP award? Me neither… I know ND will have Bettis and Brown, and there was a guy named Montana who took several MVP trophies. Truth be told Ohio State might get guys drafted, but within a year or several they are out of football and retelling their College heroics at the neighborhood pub or from under a bridge without a college degre in hand….
Did you catch the Weis story on 60 Minutes (CBS) the other day. Probably not, you were looking for an Ohio State story, right. Court TV or COPS had ran several stories.
Finally, Brady looked real good playing on the Baltimore Ravens Home field last week, just getting used to playing on Sundays. Troy, get used to possibly playing in the defensive backfield, if your drafted.
I grew up in Dublin, Ohio and want to see Brady Quinn succeed. I have no doubt he will be the MVP of a Super Bowl one day. However, we are talking about an award that is for the best college football player. If OSU beats UM and wins the NC, Troy will absolutely deserve the Heisman. Why? Well we can debate stats all day – but in the end you want the guy that can lead his team to a victory in the big games. Based on both of their college careers – that battle my friend goes to Troy. (It is too bad we can’t have a rematch in the NC game)
Troy Smith with never be a quarterback in the NFL. At most, at the very most, he will be another Antwaan Randle El. He’s a undersized QB who will follow in the footsteps of all black quarterbacks……those footsteps are no where. Quinn is by far the best QB in college football, bar none.
Here’s what’s going to happen: Troy Smith & mighty OSU will beat Michigan & their #2 defense; Smith will have average numbers that may not be pretty but will be timely. The TV talking heads (Musberger, John Saunders, Mark May, Rodney Gilmore, Michael Wilbon, etc) will cream their pants singing the praises of the greatest dual threat QB of the century…Troy Smith.
The fact that ND QB Quinn will fail to win Heisman is still little consolation for the aforementioned idiots who were praying that Weis would do no better than Willingham & continue their “ND is racist rant”. I never understood that viewpoint…if ND were racist why would they hire Ty to begin with? Oh yeah, when the PC police & liberal (yes, even in sports) media are involved, the only “free speech” allowed is the speech that they agree with.
Anyway, as an ND fan, I’m man enuf to admit that Quinn had his shot vs. Michigan & blew it. Take away the preseason media hype over ND and this is still a team that’s 2 yrs away.
Remember Weis is stuck w/ playing average, at best, leftover athletes from the failed Bob Davie/Ty Willingham regime. This includes a junion class that now consists of 8 players! Weis has a quality QB in Quinn, great receiver in Samardzjia & NFL prospect in TE Carlson. Other than that: AVERAGE and not worthy of a BCS invite. I’m not being defeatist just realistic…they go to another BCS and you’ll see another embarrassing loss which means no bowl victory since after ’93 season.
well if you would have read into it a little i was referring to how the media blows their performances way out of per portion and praises them for every damn thing that they do and living in ohio it is very disturbing to hear all of that day in and day out
OSU dominant over pathetic teams? Are we saying that ND doesn’t play pathetic teams? Judging from their schedule, I would say they do. I must say that I am glad ND will not have the opportunity to play Ohio State this year. OSU would then, how was it put? Oh yes, it was Dan who said it: “dominance over pathetic teams continues.”
To all ND fans:
Please remove Brady Quinn’s member from your mouths.
Well OSU #1 i guess that you just dont know your stats either
FACT>> ND-5 recievers with 15 catches or more for a combined 2183 yds. and 20 TD’s
FACT>> OSU-3 Recievers with 15 catches or more for a combined 1487 yds. and 17 TD’s
so once again just relevant statistics please
Well all things aside and Jayson’s comment being extremely racist, we might as well call him a Rush Limbaugh of sorts. Me being raised a Blue and Gold boy over the years may be the reason that I am saying this, but even though the Irish are in gun fights week in and week out to inferior talent(MSU, UCLA) is not to be put on the shoulders of Quinn. So his team calls on him late in games to get wins, and is successful, I don’t know about anyone else but that is the kind of QB that I would want at the reighns of my team.
Say you put Smith in the mix with an inferior to medeocre defense on a weekly basis and with a rushing attack that stuggles terrible at times forcing him to pass I think after that we may have a better idea of who is the better QB. That being said there is no way of conclusivly saying who is the absolute hands down better QB at this time.
I believe that the deciding factor to this equation will be both of their performances at the end of the year Quinn v. USC and Smith v. UM (granting nothing rediculous happens before then).
Both are unbelievable athletes with their own great, stand out categories, it is sad to say that it may just come down to all of the hype that is consistently and convienently stuck straight to the cheek of the big ass that is OSU. I am from Ohio and I am a ND fan, it is very disterbing to hear the media absolutly kissing their ass and suckling on the power teet of OSU while their dominance over pathetic teams continues. Sorry for the non-relavent rant but that is just the little bit of bias that i had to throw in.
In the end good luck to both of the talented young men throughout the remainder of the season and their future endevors.
Go Irish
To quote Terry
“give me a break when a guy throws the ball forty yards in the air and lets his receiver run under it and catch it. Plenty of skill and ability there…”
I guess Brady Quinn doesn’t rely on Samardzija with his 47 foot wing span.
Troy Smith throws to at least 6 different receivers consistantly. Ohio State is an offensive powerhouse. I am looking forward to OSU playing 3 number 2 teams this year. Who has ND played?
At least non of Woody’s teams got into fights.
Regarding the stats, being up 21-0 by the second half lends itself to alot of Zwick and Pittman/Wells/Wells. Quinn’s has neither a run game nor a defense, keeping him passing for the entire game. Seriously, must you harp on this subject needlessly? Smith is made himself known as the clear choice for Most Outstanding Player in the college game. He’s had one mediocre performance, during which he still made a truely amazing play and his team still won by more than 3 touchdowns. Quinn has had multiple mediocre performances, the Gtech game, most of UCLA and a good portion of MSU, not to mention the complete collapse at home against Michigan. Looking at your blog, it seems you can’t get enough of Troy vs Quinn. Most ND fans I know have conceded that Quinn does not desserve the Heisman, often citing his supirior draft status and the fact that the Heisman is useless. Well, I for one am far too much a college football fan to be impressed with “draft status”, and prefer to add another Heisman to my school’s trophey room. That would make 7, I believe. Neat.
Brady plays under the most intense pressure position in all of college football.
No pressure at OSU! Remind me again the last time ND won a bowl game? They must be under alot of pressure.
I am from Cleveland, Ohio and am sick and tired about hearing of Troy Smith. Hear is a guy who gets kicked out of St. Edward High School, gets suspended for NCAA rules violation, has average stats during his college career, is not projected to be drafted in the first two rounds of the NFL draft in 2007, and yet announcers like Fowler and Musburger kiss his ass everytime they talk about OSU. Should we expect better from a University that has hired an entire law firm to represent its football team, because at least once a week someone gets arrested or found guilty of a crime. Heck the most famous coach (Woody Hayes) assaulted a player during a game. I do not think Rockne, Leahy, Holtz, or any other coach conducted himself on or off the field in that way.
Back to Troy Smith, who could not carry Brady’s jock strap. An above average athlete with average Quarterback skill. Brady will go down in Notre Dame history as the greatest if not one of the greatest to ever wear the golden helmet. Brady plays under the most intense pressure position in all of college football. And yet even in defeat (Michigan) he still threw for three scores. If it were a character and Quarterback skills competition, Brady wins hands down. But of course the media (ESPN) wants to only talk about Troy’s “fabulous plays”, give me a break when a guy throws the ball forty yards in the air and lets his receiver run under it and catch it. Plenty of skill and ability there… Go Irish: Subway Alumnus
Troy Smith is just another undersized black quarterback who will fail miserably in the NFL, while Brady Quinn will go on to have an oustanding career as a pro.
Ditto the above two comments. By your skewed logic of what constitutes success (stats alone), Colt McCoy is on par with Quinn and has better wins against better competition than Quinn. Quinn is a very good QB, but Smith’s team is undefeated and he alone deserves the trophy if OSU remains undefeated. Quinn probably deserves to be invited to NYC (if ND beats USC) but ultimately he is not the best QB this year.
Well, by the you looked at it, Colt Brennan is the clear Heisman choice.
230/311(Comp/Att) 73.95%(Comp. %) 2934 yrds(throw for) 33 TDs 5 INTs 185.0 (Passer Rating)
He kills Quinn from a stat stand point.
You’re so bias with your judgement. Its blinding you.
Hell, Colt McCoy does compare with Quinn and he is a RS FR.
147/214(comp/att) 67.74% (comp. %) 24 TDs 4 INTs 166.6 Passer Rating
Quinn really shouldnt even be in the question for Heisman. ESPN and the media are keeping him alive by fellating him ever game.
Troy Smith doesn’t need the stats, because he and his team aren’t in shootouts every other week, for one thing.
Colt McCoy at Texas is having a better year than Quinn.
“Rick, quite simply, that is one of the most moronic posts I’ve ever read. What kind of evidence do you have to support such a proposterous claim? Please name one game winning drive where Smith led his team to a come from behind victory. And if you even try to say last year at Michigan it would further prove you have no knowledge of college football. If you consider an underthrown ball that forced Anthony Gonzalez to make an outstanding play a dominating 4th quarter drive, far more superior to the likes of Brady Quinn, I pity you. Brady would have hit a wide open Gonzo for a TD, not sprawling for a terrible pass inside the 5 yard line. Of course that was much better than overthrowing the receiver like he does almost every time he throws deep. How is it that you can overthrow Ted Ginn, Jr? Someone please explain how that is humanly possible. I guess I just opened the door for some comment lauding Troy Smith’s amazing arm. So once again….what proof backs up your claim again? I’m really not a Troy Smith hater at all. I would love to see him be the first player to get paid at the collegiate level and win a Heisman Trophy. The fact that he can hold down a job while playing Heisman level football and attending class is very impressive.”
I can’t help but laugh at entire thread that begs for evidence and then makes a hypothetical claim for what Brady Quinn WOULD have done. I suppose it’s all speculative anywyay. Still, it’s worth mentioning that the Buckeyes DID come back to win the Michigan game with Smith at the helm. Then, of course, they went on to beat Notre Dame, with Smith taking Fiesta Bowl MVP honors. And just as VY’s performance in the 2005 Rose Bowl spurred his Heisman quest (which, as I’ll come back to in a minute) last season, Troy’s performance propelled him to the front of the pack this season.
Nevertheless, the whole debate is empirically silly. ND fans manipulate statistics to say Quinn’s better – OSU fans are probably worse offenders. I think Brady sums it up well, talking about Troy: “I like to watch him,” Quinn said. “He’s an unbelievable player. … (But) we’re two different quarterbacks in two different systems.”
So let’s say that Brady is a better quarterback, better stats, better against mutual opponents PSU, MSU. Fine, fine, fine. Give him the Heisman, and hopefully Troy can raise the crystal football. Turned out okay for that other #10 in Austin last year…
For the record Im not the one who posted the bowl game results, those numbers are not fair as ND’s secondary is not very good at all. Also to the guy who posted this-
And if you even try to say last year at Michigan it would further prove you have no knowledge of college football. If you consider an underthrown ball that forced Anthony Gonzalez to make an outstanding play a dominating 4th quarter drive, far more superior to the likes of Brady Quinn, I pity you.
You do realize there was more than one play on that drive, right? And you also realize that those other plays consisted of amazing third down conversions, including a fourteen yard play on 3rd and 13 made with his legs while juking two defenders in the open field, right?
Listen everyone I want to ask a question. I told a friend of mine that I don’t care about compeletion percentage cuz smith dinks and dunks his way down field, he came back with smiths yards per completion, but since quinn has more completions its total crap. I want to find a break down of completions this season. If anyone can find that please let me know!
I think some of you are missing the point of this post. The point is that both of these QB’s have very similar stats, but the media has pretty much all but conceded the Heisman to Quinn.
And stats from LAST year’s bowl game have no merit here since we are talking about THIS year’s Heisman race, not LAST year’s .
So please…. just THIS year’s facts… just THIS year’s facts.
you cannot say conclusively that either is the better quarterback. right now, i think troy deserves the heisman. he has looked very, very good when i have watched him. as stated above, you cannot say that brady has better stats when he throws so much more than smith.
I am pretty sure these two went head to head in the last year’s bowl game.
FACT: Troy Smith 342 passing / 66 rushing = 408 total yards
with 3 TD’s and the win
FACT: Brady Quinn 286 yards / -32 rushing = 254 total yards
with 0 TD’s and the loss
Just the FACTS PLEASE…Just the FACTS
I just have to mention, since the number is mentioned repeatedly, including in the title of this post…
Quinn’s percentage is 63.7%, not 64.4%, and projecting out through the end of the season should not change this (290/455 still = 63.7%)…so that gives Troy Smith more like a 4% edge. Also, as Grant mentioned earlier, it is tough to argue that Quinn is having a statistically better year than Smith. There are currently 22 D-1A quarterbacks with a better quarterback rating than Quinn (145.84), who is considerably lower than Smith at #5 (174.31).
That said, those are just the numbers, and I still believe (in my own ND-fan biased opinion anyway) that Quinn is the better quarterback. The fact that ND’s defense, OL and running game have been underperforming, and the team therefore relies more heavily on Quinn to lead them, in my mind only makes him a stronger candidate for the Heisman. The spin they put on Smith’s performance in some of these games is absolutely ridiculous. I have no doubt he is one of the best quarterbacks in the nation, but the Penn State game commentary especially disgusted me. 12-22, 115 yds, 1 TD, 2 INTs. That is not an impressive game by any means, but all the media wanted to talk about was his one good play where he made the TD pass – it seemed they already wanted to hand him the award back then.
Did Michigan’s defense “underachieve” when they held Notre Dame to 17 points last year?
No, but ask any UM fan and they will tell you that the consistency just wasnt there the last couple of years.
Again, Im a fan of Quinn and believe he has all the tools. I also believe he has at times this year looked sloppy and rattled where he didnt last year. I dont know why that is, but its affected his play and standing for heisman votes, which he is not out of yet.
john:
Did Michigan’s defense “underachieve” when they held Notre Dame to 17 points last year?
Dave:
“I’m really not a Troy Smith hater at all. I would love to see him be the first player to get paid at the collegiate level and win a Heisman Trophy. The fact that he can hold down a job while playing Heisman level football and attending class is very impressive.”
Well, you are being “fair and balanced” now aren’t you? And to think that Notre Dame fans think that Ohio State fans are classless and obnoxious.
Hey Dave,
Go to the following address and watch what Smith does before the throw. I think Quinn is an exceptional QB by the way, but would probably take Smith in the above mentioned scenario because he is a winner.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uOuEH2XP31A
Rick, quite simply, that is one of the most moronic posts I’ve ever read. What kind of evidence do you have to support such a proposterous claim? Please name one game winning drive where Smith led his team to a come from behind victory. And if you even try to say last year at Michigan it would further prove you have no knowledge of college football. If you consider an underthrown ball that forced Anthony Gonzalez to make an outstanding play a dominating 4th quarter drive, far more superior to the likes of Brady Quinn, I pity you. Brady would have hit a wide open Gonzo for a TD, not sprawling for a terrible pass inside the 5 yard line. Of course that was much better than overthrowing the receiver like he does almost every time he throws deep. How is it that you can overthrow Ted Ginn, Jr? Someone please explain how that is humanly possible. I guess I just opened the door for some comment lauding Troy Smith’s amazing arm. So once again….what proof backs up your claim again? I’m really not a Troy Smith hater at all. I would love to see him be the first player to get paid at the collegiate level and win a Heisman Trophy. The fact that he can hold down a job while playing Heisman level football and attending class is very impressive.
>>Aside from the fact the ‘06 Michigan veteran-laden defensive interior has been hailed as the best Carr has ever had and that Ron English was not the Wolverines defensive coordinator either of the two previous times Troy Smith has faced Michigan, you “almost” made a legitimate point here.
We’ll see on nov 18, its the same players with a new coordinator who was hired from the existing defensive staff, all they have done is not underachieve like they did last year.
>>Uh, right. What part of Troy Smith being the media’s runaway Heisman favorite even though he’s had an inferior season to Quinn do you not understand?
maybe the part you left out, i.e Quinn was the preseason fave and all he had to do was not blow it, and he did(alhtough his team let him down as well), and there is still plenty of support for him in case Troyy slips up.
>>FACT: Quinn is the statistically superior QB.
not fact, refer to grants analysis
by the way, at what point is ND fan going to stop crying about the polls? You were overrated to begin with! There is no D and no running game, Weiss has one quality win in two years and that was Georgia Tech( which is becoming a questionable quality win) because of that the media which usually overhypes you and your coach has cooled off, dont worry Im sure you will start next year in the top 5 for no other reason than you almost beat USC last year, congrats!
Are you serious? ?Have you seen Smith play? When it comes to a 4th quarter drive with 45 seconds left Smith owns Quinn.
I agree w/ you Grant. To be fair, this season is full of parity…look at all the one-loss teams. No one has stepped up to make a case for being a dominating favorite for the Nat’l Championship nor the Heisman.
I bleed Blue & Gold, but reality tells me that the Heisman is Troy Smith’s to lose. His stats aren’t overwhelming but if he leads OSU to an undefeated season, his W/L record will seal the deal much like it did for Jason White of Oklahoma, Geno Torretta of Miami and any other mediocre QB on a top-ranked team.
All this b/c no one player has stepped up above the fray. There’s no QB I’d rather have to direct a 2-minute drill than Quinn, but let’s face it, he had his shot vs. Michigan & he (& the rest of Notre Dame) failed…miserably. Now if Troy Smith plays poorly or maybe even pedestrian in a loss to Michigan (two big “ifs”), then Quinn has a small window of opportunity. He’d have to perform against USC much like Carson Palmer did against ND the year he was awarded the trophy. This is assuming ND handles UNC, Army & Air Force. Don’t laugh, b/c you know you assumed ND would blow the doors off Purdue, Michigan St. & UCLA and that they’d at least win or lose a close one to Michigan.
Thank you, John, for providing no meaningful data other than off-the-cuff opinion to either refute my argument or back up yours.
FACT: Quinn is the statistically superior QB.
FACT: Smith’s stats against Penn State and Michigan State were mediocre to average, while Quinn’s stats versus these same two teams were spectacular.
As for some of your other inane comments.
“who by the way is not at all a media darling on the biggest media darling team, right?”
>>Uh, right. What part of Troy Smith being the media’s runaway Heisman favorite even though he’s had an inferior season to Quinn do you not understand? What part of ND being the only team in the country this season to not only drop in the rankings, but drop three separate times AFTER A WIN do you not understand? What part of ND being jumped in consecutive weeks by two teams–Florida and Cal–WHO HAD BYE WEEKS do you not understand?
“Quinn look rattled vs. the only team he played all year…”
>>I assume you mean Michigan here. I’m also assuming you’re just forgetting ND’s season opener versus Georgia Tech in Atlanta.
“…a team that is essentially the same as the one Smith has dominated the last two years…”
>>Aside from the fact the ’06 Michigan veteran-laden defensive interior has been hailed as the best Carr has ever had and that Ron English was not the Wolverines defensive coordinator either of the two previous times Troy Smith has faced Michigan, you “almost” made a legitimate point here. Unfortunately, the half point I was willing to concede must be deducted in that you tried to magically insert both previous seasons and hypothetical results of games-yet-to-be-played to back up your argument. If I was to follow your lead, then I’d be remiss not to point out that Brady Quinn is 2-1 all-time versus Michigan.
Troy could pump up his stats to equal Quinns(who by the way is not at all a media darling on the biggest media darling team, right?) if he didnt have-
A. a top quality running game
B. capable backups who see time (osu doesnt squeak by lesser opponents)
c. A coach who doesnt run up scores
P.S Quinn looked rattled vs the only decent team he played all year, a team that is essentially the same as the one Smith has dominated the last two years and will get his shot again. Im not knocking Quinn (another Ohioan), but if you cant see by watching who is the better QB right now in college football, you need to take off your golden covered glasses.
Well done! Well done! You just said everything that I’ve been thinking. I’ve been going over the stats myself wondering how Troy Smith gets praised for a measly 183 yds and 1 TD pass over Minnesota? The only stat you didn’t mention in all of this is the fact that Brady Quinn’s been sacked 21 times so far this season compared to Troy Smith’s 8. No offense to the line, but I think that it’s a testament to how tough and what an amazing player Quinn is to put up the numbers he’s had when he’s been sacked that much. Put Troy Smith behind a line that gives up 21 sacks and see how well he plays. Put Brady Quinn behind a line like Ohio State’s. He’d put up more #’s than Smith, oops, he alreay has, nevermind. People say that Quinn can’t play well under pressure? He’s been under more pressure this whole season than Troy Smith has ever been. Let’s see how well Troy Smith plays under pressure, because I haven’t seen it yet. The Michigan game will show all.