Brady Quinn for Heisman

Dope-Smoking in Ohio, your comments were very un-called for. Regardless of how you feel about OU, please refrain from making such pig headed comments. In light of what Drew Brees, Tony Romo, and Jeff Garcia are doing in the NFL Troy smith will work out fine (if given a chance). In addition, Troy’s beat Quinn in a head to head match up. And he’s beaten every top 10 team except TX while, Quinn has lost every game against top ranked opponents with LSU being the most recent.

Neutral USC fan

Ohio State vs. Florida in the National Championship game, I guess Urban Meyer knew what he was doing when he blew off ND and the Irish ended up with sloppy seconds, Charlie-the-wannabe-tuna. If ND is the institution of higher learning that they think they are my question is this – does everybody study history? Because it’s been so long since they were significant that you would have to be a history major or have your head up your ass to think that Ohio State, Troy Smith, and Jim Tressel don’t outclass ND in every way imaginable.

Nebraska:

Well said…we finally agree on something.

Ok, the Troy bashing is kinda irrelevant, now that he has locked up the Heisman. Communications is what he wanted to study, why should he pick something that’s “harder” or didn’t want to do. Also, athletes usually take communications because they have a better chance of working in broadcast, i.e. they have position tailor made for them called sports analyst. “He’s no stellar person,” you must be kidding. He got kicked out of high school: So, must people that get kicked out of high school don’t even get a GED, yet alone a HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA AND COLLEGE DEGREE. WOW! He missed an award ceremony, he’s a real jerk! Then, he went out partying the NEXT NIGHT (a night he was probably not busy), not the same night as the event. It seems that some people want to use the words “ghetto” and “thug,” do you’ll even know what these words mean?… NO. I would bet that its your slick way of saying the N word. In regard to the “ghetto” stuff, ND has it share of those recruits,too. ND is about 45 miles outside of Chicago and every good player in Chicago gets recruited by ND, in the last 4 years 3 players from the same “ghetto” school have went to ND. Troy is in no way, shape, or form a “thug”. 1. He’s too religious to be a thug. 2. He would have never got back in school after he got kicked out. 3. The whole money incident would have never happened, he would have either been selling drugs or some other gangster would have gave him the money. However, I would expect a couple of silver spoons to understand the Troy Smith story, but to everyone who was not lived that luxury life he’s a real model. P.S. we can talk in June when Brady drops in the draft like Matt did. Don’t think that GM’s have not taken into fact that Brady has not showed up in big games, especially in a league where every game is pretty much a big game.

Irish Realist:

I never said that Willingham and Davie were good coaches. I just said that Willingham won more games against good opponents in his first year than Weis has in his first two years. Why? My theory is that Willingham (and Davie) had real potential as football coaches, and while that potential won both guys some games, neither guy was able to cross the threshold and realize it. Fortunately in Weis ND hired a guy who was a good coach already, better than Davie or Willingham was ever going to be. What remains to be seen is whether Weis is a great coach, and the test of that will come when Weis has his own players.

Thanks for all the knowledge Irish Realist, it was fun to read and to have some blasts from the past some of which were great, others quite painful.

To you OSU fans, we don’t care about Troy Smith’s sob stories, shut up, he’s an idiot bottom line, everybody has tough things to deal with, get over it.

Irish Realist:

Speak the truth and get asked to leave? How is that being “a realist”? I base the fact that Willingham would have gone 10 – 2 against this schedule on the fact that he went 10 – 3 against a far tougher schedule in 2002, and that he did actually have some good seasons at Stanford before he got to ND, including a 9 – 3 one with a victory over #2 Oregon on the road his last year there. As a matter of fact, Willingham would have won 7 or 8 games at Washington this season had his QB not gotten injured. Now as far as Weis adapting the scheme to fit the talent: good luck finding a scheme that would have made Carlyle Holiday, Jared Clark, Gary Godsey, Ronnie Rodamer, Omar Jenkins, Marcus Wilson, etc. effective! Willingham didn’t do that great a job at ND especially in years 2 and 3, but please do not pretend that he had anything to work with.

Nebraska,

There’s no way you can correctly predict that Willingham would have gone 10-2 w/ his players. You do realize that after his 2003 class, he was responsible for the 2 worst documented recruiting classes in ND history? There were 3 players that even rated in most recruitniks’ top 20. Willingham, like Davie; thought the aura of ND would recruit itself. Unfortunately, those high school kids weren’t old enough to remember 1993 when ND last was an elite program. Then when the recruits travel to South Bend in December when it’s freezing & see that there’s nothing, outside of football, that would appeal to an 18yr old they choose FSU, Miami, or USC. No beaches,no big city, etc. That’s why Weis was the best choice for the job, and in hindsight; a better fit than Urban Meyer would’ve been. Weis “gets it” when recruiting ND. He sells it to the kids. As a coach, you gotta buy into that b/c it’s all you got. I assume you’ve been to the thriving metropolis of South Bend. Great people, but it ain’t South Beach, Columbus, Ann Arbor, LA, etc. Beautiful campus, but that’s it as far as attractions for an 18 yr old. You didn’t hear about Davie nor Willingham staying behind in LA to recruit why his team flew back home. I wouldn’t wish the ND O-Line or defensive backfield on my worst enemy. I’m sure they’re all class kids who will succeed in life, but as football players, they’re average at best. Remember, Willinghma didn’t even let Samardzija see the field his 1st 2 years, yet w/ 2 yrs under Weis, he breaks or sets most of ND’s receiving records. Same goes for Quinn. And TY’s Def Coord. was worse than minter if you can believe that. Had Ty not been too stubborn to replace both coordinators, he may have righted the ship & still be there. Also, you can’t say Davie’s players were recruited to solely run the option. He changed his offensive philosophy like he was basing it on a public opinion poll. He promised to run a pro-style offense to convince Ron Powlus to return for 5th yr., then he switched to option, then he switched to a mishmash of God knows what, then he finally got a decent offense behind true frosh, Matt Lovechio, who led them to 8 straight victories (if memory serves). Then they get boatraced by Oregon St. in the Fiesta much like Willingham got boatraced by USC 3 times in a row, along w/ embarrassing shut outs at home vs. FSU & Michigan. W/o a doubt, some of the most embarrasing losses ever. That being said, Willingham had the perfect west coast offense QB on campus in the aforementioned Lovechio, but chose to let him transfer & tried to force feed his offense on, as you correctly pointed out, option QB Holiday. The difference between Willingham & Weis, is that Weis would have adjusted his offensive philosophy to fit the talent on campus. That’s what he’s done w/ the players he has now. You didn’t think of the Patriots as the “greatest show on turf” type passing offense did you? He mixed it up perfectly w/ a run & pass game when he had the personnel. By the way, if QBs are going to be judged by compiling 4500 yds & a minor bowl appearance, than 80% of every D-1 QB could qualify as great after 2 yrs. Scouts are the first to say that Quinn was a tough kid that had some raw QB skills, but his 2 yrs w/ Weis has made him a top-5 draft pick. No, Weis hasn’t beat an elite team yet, but he has also beat the teams that he was supposed to (w/ the exception of OT loss to MSU last yr…again no defense). Ty & Bob would play up & down to their competition. Losses to Pitt, Boston college (back on the schedule next year, by the way), BYU, etc. were becoming all to commonplace. I was at the ND/UT game when Willingham was coach. No way ND wins, if Ainge doesn’t separate his shoulder. The PITT game was ugly too…all they had was Larry Fitzgerald and no ranking at the end of the season kind of like last year’s PITT team. And since you mentioned humor, “Funny how you Irish haters like to forget that Willingham won in 2002 w/ Bob Davie’s players”. The press never mentioned that last year when pointing out that Weis was winning w/ Ty’s players. I, for one, haven’t crowned Weis king. If you don’t care for him, fine but Brady Quinn, Jeff Samardzija, John Carlson, Maurice Stovall & Anthony Fasano may beg to differ. I’m not saying they wouldn’t have gotten to the NFL, but they wouldn’t be drafted as high or at all w/o Charlie Weis’ & his offensive staff’s tutelage. All right that’s enough from me…don’t you have a team you root for? You sure are on the ND sites a lot for not being a fan…not that there’s anything wrong w/ that.

Well I can’t say I’m suprised about the USC game; although I’d hope that ND could keep it close. i don’t think any college QB could beat the elite teams like USC, OSU or Michigan if they had to play behind that pathetic O-Line and a run game w/ zero game-breakers. Give Quinn credit for doing what he could when USC blitzed continuously (hint to Coach Minter) and camped out in the ND backfield while blanketing the WRs.

It’s painfully obvious that ND isn’t up to the same talent level as the elite teams yet. But if you would have told me that Weis would end his first 2 yrs w/ a 19-4 regular season record, I’d have gladly taken it. It sure beats the hell out of the Davie/Willingham era.

Once he gets the benefit of the caliber of athletes that USC & OSU attract, i believe ND will be back in the upper echelon of college f’ball.

HOW ABOUT THOSE OU BOBCATS?

ONE MORE THING:
The latest from the OSU media is that “If we lost the game they ( the BCS ) would put us lower than second. We just recieve no respect from the nation.” Bucks have fear of facing Michigan again. Truth be told, Coach of the year, Heisman winner and undefeated is still not good enough for buckeye fans here. They’ve complained about Tressel at Illinois. They should not have gone three and out in the second half against Michigan. Where was the offense. Ad nauseum. All the hardware in the world and Woddy resurrected from the dead would not suffice for buckeye fans.
Again, Quinn and Smith are OK. Stats favor Quinn.
And by the way, as for the racists comments made by ohessyou, Quinn is whiter and slower-get a life. Quinn’s roomate is blacker than me and classier than you will ever be. As for Paddy O Dumbell- like your Buckeye’s that’s fine. However, you need not crack on the Irish. We obviously are not a threat to you. You are just another example of the OSU media product. I DO concede OSU is a better team- this year. More complete but rarely tested. Nobody is “attacking” your precious OSU. In truth, naming it for what it is-paranoid even when it needn’t be. Afraid of the success of others for it might diminish your own. So typical of Buckeye fans- not necessarily the players and coach. I think the two best coaches in the NCAA are in South Bend and Columbus. The thing is after football season, most Domers, unlike Most Buckeyes realize football is a cool thing-it’s just not the only thing.

While Weis may not have his “signature win over an elite opponent” just yet, be assured that it will come sometime w/in the next few years. Keep in mind that he’s been saddled w/ some sub-par recruiting classes that preceded his arrival. Did you know that his current junior class consists of 8 scholarship players? OSU & UM probably have that many 5 star high school all-americans among their approx 25-man class. To be fair, the 2003 class has some of the best skill players ND has had (Quinn, Samardzija, Zibby), but the gaps weren’t filled w/ similar talent along the trenches. In retrospect, NO ONE has expected Weis to do what he’s done his 1st two yrs.

Let’s not forget what Mark May & Lee Corso (all huge Irish fans…yeah right!) predicted before NDs 1st game in ’05: 1 win and 5 losses after their first 6 games. ND was also nowhere to be found in ANY pre-season poll that year. But Weis molded Quinn into a phenomonal QB & utilized Samardzija, Fasano, & Stovall like we never imagined possible.

Another point: the 8 leftover juniors & the senior class were recruited to run the West Coast offense. That means Weis didn’t have the luxury of a running game that would give the ND offense both dimensions that they need to keep defenses off balance.

Now I realize the above are excuses as much as they are facts, but since Weis isn’t about to throw out excuses in his team’s defense, I thought I’d do it. And, yes, he knew exactly what he was inheriting: “a 6-5 team”.

The press, especially the likes of Mark May, Corso, Craig James, John Saunders, Tim Brando, Trev Alberts, Jason Whitlock, Michael Wilbon, Jay Mariotti, et al, couldn’t wait for the Weis regime to fail…it didn’t happen. Then, overnight, the press (not including the above or the other haters) couldn’t wait to jump on the bandwagon & overrate ND w/ accolades of preseason #1.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Now the Irish may pull an upset & beat USC and finally win a bowl game versus an impressive Arkansas team OR the Irish may get boatraced the next 2 games. Either way, Weis is one step closer to having the IRISH back…completely back.

I agree Troy Smith may have rehabbed his image (a necessity if he wants to be a high draft pick). I think the everyday college f’ball fan wonders why Smith only missed one game for taking money whereas Bob Stoops kicked both his starting QB & best O-Lineman off the team for doing the same. By doing so & still going 9-2 (10-1 w/ an admitted Pac-10 robbery in the Oregon game)should make Stoops a shoo in for coach of the year. Now that being said, IF Smith had played that first game last year & established himself as the starter in the Texas game…they could’ve easily beat Texas. Of course, IF my aunt had a unit, she’d be my uncle. But I believe OSU was the better team last year between among UT & USC. Similar to this year, where the press goes on & on how “LSU may be the most talented team in the nation” but their still a 2 loss team that barely escaped a 3-8 Ole Miss team.

I hope Brady Quinn has a wonderful game against USC. It would make for a more interesting final week before the Heisman show, but likely wont make much difference even if he is awesome and wins the game.

That being said, there are some people on this board doing an incredible disservice to themselves and the Notre Dame (the school, team, fans, etc).

Show some class to a class program and a class individual like Troy Smith. Everyone makes mistakes in their lives, and few live it under such scrutiny. But nobody has worked harder on and off the field than Troy Smith and to not see, understand, or respect that is to show an enormous amount of disrespect towards your own team and players.

Troy Smith is not a thug. He is far from it today. His life and the man could not be any different than what has become of Clarett. If you really cared to compare the people (Smith and Quinn) you would have a great deal of respect for Troy Smith. He did get kicked out of a high school, and was then taken in by Tedd Ginn Sr both as a coach and as a father figure/mentor. Smith had a lot of anger growing up and no father. He has been working on his anger for many many years with mentors and counseling. He started to change his life around then. The money he took? Ironically statements from both players and everyone involved concurred that Smith made a really bad choice – to take the $500 for a friend (Roommate) who had gotten in deep and need a quick repayment. Anyone who REALLy does their homework know the answer to this one? Anyone? Beuller? – Troy Smith took the $500 and gave it to his roomate Maurice Clarett. Remember at the time Smith was a nobody and his roomate was everyone’s (about to be fallen) hero. Smith paid a high price. Then Tressel told him I’ll support reinstatement as long as you “dont make me look stupid” – direct quote from both coach and player. Now two years later he has his life completely on track. Has kept his end of the bargain. become the best QB in the country at reading the D and going through his progressions and has the most accurate arm strength. The only reason he wont go ahead of Quinn is because of his real height of 5’10”. But that alone ought to give ND fans a pause and go, wait a minute – Quinn has an advantage there so Troy must be working hard to make up for it.

By the way a lot has also been said here that Troy Smith is dumb, thuggish, will dishonor/or has the university. Anyone want to guess when Troy Smith will graduate? Oh, wait – he already DID! last spring – and stop it with the horrible school/bad major/cheating crap. Stop that insulting behavior. Give a kid his credit for aligning himself with the right people (Ginn Sr. Tressel, becoming close friends of his offensive coaches who both had heart attacks this summer), changing his game so dramatically to what it is today, and graduating early.

just stop. Don’t knock Troy. Don’t knock the OSU proram. Tressel cleans house when its necessary. You cant say he kept Troy around just because he wanted to win and let Maurice Go at the same time when OSU would have won the 2003 title with Mo too.

Brady Quinn is a wonderful QB whose only problem has been that he has never won a big game (not against USC, Not against Ohio State, and Not against a UM team that didnt finish 7-5). He has somethign to prove on Saturday.

But thats just that he is a great QB for ND and can win one that matters. The heisman trophy is another matter entirely.

But just stop with the rude and disrespectful talk about Troy Smith, Tressel, its imaginary thuggery. My god have you ever even listened to his players or seen how 99% of them behave in public. No coach has a better bead on his kids than Tressel. Not a single coach. And that has been written about a ton by sportswriters all over the nation.

There are lots of coaches that recruit kids of questionable backgrounds – but from that point there are two kinds of coaches who do that. ones that exploit them and let them control the program, and the ones (like tressel) who care for them like a father (kicks them out after they blow chances to change – cooper, maldonado, clarett, Irizarry), and who changes them not just as football players but as men.

To some Tressel’s winning on the field is a direct result of his winning off the field by turning the majority of his players into men.

Weiss is a great coach by the way – but to be on track to be an all-time great he too, like Quinn, must actually come through in big games.

best of luck to Quinn and ND this saturday. I hope they make the irish proud.

I find it very funny reading all of the OSU comments because once again those guys cannot admit the truth. I’ll tell you what the truth is…Yes, OSU is the better complete team this year, but ND has the best offense in the country. I’ll take any match up against Quinn, Smarzija (?), McNight, Carlson, and Walker any day. Weiss is the best and most gutsiest play caller in the country. Yea, we got schlacked by Michigan, but I bet if we played them now, it would be a very different story. Everything that could’ve gone wrong, did. What makes me laugh is even after ND fans have admitted OSU is the best team and unfort. Smith will probably win the Heisman, they can’t let it go….GET A LIFE…The past is the past and OSU doesn’t even come close to ND’s…the following, ratings, contract, national championships, tradition (which OSU has none of)..make it an icon..You either love ND or hate them..there’s no in between. As far as Brady is concerned..he’s means the most to his team, has the best arm, can take his team down the field like no other qb and look at his stats..last time I checked he had more passing yards, touchdowns, and the same amount of interceptions as Smith..and he’s played a better schedule..you want to talk about Quinn’s team barely winning against sub-par opponents..ok, let’s talk about Troy almost losing to PSU up till the last 2 1/2 minutes, how they almost lost to Illinois..and as poorly as Uof M played, they only lost by 3 points..Smith is lucky to have a job right now..he was kicked out of one high school, only to continue his thuggish ways at OSU…he better thank his lucky stars, Tressel gave him another chance..a hell of a lot of other coaches wouldn’t have..

Bottom line…ND is back (not a number one team) on the map, Quinn deserves the Heisman, but even if he doesn’t get it, he’ll be drafted number one..Smith will be lucky to go in the first round, if he even plays quarterback at all..

Irish eyes will be smiling down on ND on Sat. in Southern Cal!
Go Irish!

hey Quinn rules and smith stinks; that’s all their is to it quinn’s stats are way better than smith’s, no case look at the schedules, and nd’s is so much tougher than OSU. State had a good win vs. Uofm, but Nd will have a HUGMUNGOUS win over southern cal

Nebraska, please check your facts. I wasn’t the one who mentioned Troy Smith being a Special Teams player & I acknowledged his worthiness of the Heisman Trophy. For crying out loud, everyone agrees he earned it, can you not move on? You’re all like a salesman (or saleswoman or salesperson…don’t want to offend) who earns the business of a customer, then talks himself out of the sale. And for those who didnt speak up vs. the “racial slurs”, sorry but a so-called adult’s action should speak for itself. It’s up to the webmaster to weed out the bad eggs. Plus just b/c they log on as “Irish fan” doesn’t mean their an Irish fan & you know what I mean. This ain’t exactly airport security. I equate it to a coach, say Jim Tressel, who can only monitor a player for the time he has them. THe coach(es) can’t shadow the player 24-7 and make sure they don’t take money from a booster or get pulled over w/ unlicensed semi-automatic weapons and, similarly; we can’t comb through every post & check for something that may or may not offend. Plus, it’s racist for you to assume that only a certain race of people make up the population which reside in a “ghetto”. There are plenty of well intentioned, hard working Americans of all colors & creeds who have had to make it out of the “ghetto”. For you to assume the poster was meaning “all black kids” is prejudiced on your part. And I didn’t hear the ACLU speak up when the one of you haters stereotyped Brady Quinn: “he’s only a QB b/c he’s white, tall, & slow w/ good arm”. Enough w/ the double standards. Now will YOU & YOUR ILK finally admit the Heisman race is over & your guy won? I did and I haven’t seen an ND poster say otherwise since the Michigan victory. Once again, act like you’ve been there before & do your homework before you wrongfully attach statements to the wrong person.

TO ALL ND FANS: THE MEDIA WANTS TROY SMITH TO GET THE HEISMAN, OK BY ME. IT JUST MEANS THE BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER. BRADY WILL TAKE THE MAXWELL AND O’BRIEN TROPHIES WHICH SIGNIFY THE BEST QUARTERBACK IN THE LAND. SKILL FOR SKILL, THE ONLY THING TROY MIGHT HAVE ON BRADY IS THE ABILITY TO SCRAMBLE AND RUN. MEDIA PEOPLE LIKE WILBON, MAY, MUSBURGER, BRANDO, FOWLER HAVE NO REAL AND TRUE KNOWLEDGE EXCEPT WHAT THEY HAVE WATCHED FROM THEIR COUCHES (EXCEPT MAY -BUT HE WAS A LINEMAN). WE REALLY HAVE ONLY HAVE LOU IN OUR CORNER, WHICH AGAIN IS OK BY ME. I SEE JEALOUSY RUNNING RAMPANT THROUGHOUT ESPN AND ABC, BUT THAT’S OK BECAUSE WHEN ABC BROADCASTS THE ND V. USC GAME THEY WILL KISS ND’S BUTT.

BY THE WAY…WHO IS THIS “NEBRASKA” GUY? WOW! GET A LIFE.

Irish Realist:

The comments trashing Ohio State, Weis, and Troy Smith (including the racial slurs and the class slurs) were on here long before Paddy got on, and this includes some even more vile comments that were on the 3.3% blog that was SOLELY DEDICATED to being derogatory towards Troy Smith! And the saddest thing wasn’t the comments. The saddest thing was that NOT ONE SINGLE IRISH FAN OBJECTED! Not one single Irish fan objected to the racial innuendo. Not one single Irish fan objected to the “ghetto” comments. Not one single Irish fan even credited Troy Smith for earning his communications degree in four years! Now OSU may have a high rate of football players who fail to earn their diplomas, but Troy Smith isn’t one of them! Now of course, Smith’s great performance on the field in and in the classroom does not negate his bad behavior off the field, which led Tressel and the Ohio State AD to give him a “this is your last chance!” warning just before the start of last season and caused him to miss the first game this season and the beginning of the Texas game. And sure, go ahead, fire away, go open season on that. But the other stuff, the “once a thief always a thief” and the cracks against his mother having five kids … stuff like that is really what is used by guys like Mark May and Mike Wilbon to justify their ND hatred, and why so many people are convinced that Ty Willingham didn’t get a fair shake. For all the people who made those comments, shame on you, and for all the people who did not make the comments and yet did not stand up for what is right even after Cade called you and ND’s Catholic heritage on the carpet, that makes you even worse than the people who made the comments were.

And incidentally, Irish Realist, this whole “Troy Smith playing special teams nonsense”: I mean honestly. Why would you wish anything less than a great NFL career for Troy Smith? What did he ever do to you? You should be mad at Ty Willingham and Bob Davie for recruiting people like Chris Olsen, James Banks, and a bunch of other “5 star blue chip QBs” that never amounted to squat instead of Troy Smith, who was the last guy offered a scholarship by Tressel and wasn’t offered by any other major school. And pardon me, but a guy who goes 29 for 41 for 300+ yards and 4 TDs, then he isn’t playing special teams in the NFL, all right? The kid has thrown for 2500 yards and 30 TDs (67% completions) against only 5 picks, and all you see when you look at him as another Antwaan Randle – El? Well I am sorry if I look at him and see another Joe Montana (whose college stats were actually no better than those of Troy Smith BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM THAT HE PLAYED IN), but maybe I am looking at him through a different shade of glasses than you are.

Maybe the Joe Montana thing is a bit much, but I still like the poor – man’s Donovan McNabb thing. Donovan McNabb is taller and has a stronger arm, but Smith actually has better stats (its true, including a much higher completion percentage!) and a better college career (McNabb never won a big game, Smith’s won at least 4 of them; 3 against Michigan and 1 against ND).

You know, this board was having a fairly civil debate (except for McSweeney’s slurs about the south…real original) about who should win the Heisman before Peppermint Paddy got on. What, do the OSU boards not give you enough attention. By the way, no one took personal shots at Tressel/Smith until you & the rest of the ND haters started bashing Quinn, Weis & Co. I also didn’t see any evidence of kool aid consumption on the previous posts. Weis is a great offensive mind & has done more w/ less in these 2 short years, but I haven’t annointed him the greatest coach ever. You actually tuned into the Weis interview on 60 min? 60 minutes is for old washed up lefties that still think communism was a good idea…find something better to do. I think you concoct this stuff b/c your paranoia has you thinking everyone is against your precious Troy & the Buckeyes. In my mind, the subject of this board was to start a debate leading up to the Michigan/OSU match up…that’s when your comments would have mattered. It’s over dude, Smith did what he had to & he’ll get the trophy. As soon as the final second ticked off the clock of the OSU game, you’re on this board screaming maniacally about ND fans still not acknowledging Smith as the rightful recepient of the trophy. Why don’t you start a board about how he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, too. Your inferiority complex really needs to be addressed: “my career is better than yours” (what are you 10 yrs old?); throwing the word ‘class’ around like it originated at OSU. Plus you can’t take a jab as easily as you throw them out…lighten up. Your team is w/o a doubt the best in college f’ball this year, so for Pete’s sake, ACT LIKE YOU’VE BEEN THERE BEFORE. And BTW, it’s 2006, no one wears sweaters anymore.

Ambulance Chaser, Paddy, and Cade…

It’s the three monkees one each covering their eyes, ears, and mouth. How lucky we are have them giving us their opinions. Thanks for spending your busy day letting all us Irish fans know what is exactly contained in the space where most people have a brain. For the three of you, that space has a “Vacant” sign. The debate on which QB and University is best for 2006 can and will go on until Jan. 8, 2007. After that you will be able to see Brady on Sundays playing in Pro Football Stadiums, Troy possibly on special teams, Tressel visiting the ghettos, Charlie landing the top prospects, and the University of Notre Dame playing on NBC….Face it facts are facts. Go IRISH

Why?

WHY are you living in the past? And what does an ND’s chances for employment have to do with Troy Smith and the Heisman? You sound like a child, to go through life defining yourself by your diploma.

Let’s be fair here for a second. What more does Troy Smith have to do for you guys to concede. He gave Brady Quinn a lesson in a head-to-head matchup, OK that was last year, but now after carving up the best defense college football has to offer you guys still won’t give him the credit he deserves. I am sorry but that has nothing to do with TV hype or pre-season claims. I didn’t want to see the Buckeyes have to play ND for the National Championship because I don’t think ND could hold up their end of the bargain but now I think that that may be the only way to prove once and for all that Troy Smith is the best college football player this season. I just don’t see why it should have to come to that when 99% of the population knows that he deserves the Heisman but maybe that would put an end to the crying in South Bend. If ND got their shot at the title and Brady Quinn could go head-to-head again would ND finally admit to being second best on both fronts? I didn’t think so.

The case for the Heisman Trophy is always forced on us by TV HYPE. Who is the best player in College Football? That premise really goes out the window when the best players in college are not considered. Vinnie Testaverde is where I left being interested in who wins a Heisman. Vinnie was a mediocre to decent QB on a very good team. Was he the best the college game had to offer? Not even close, but all that season all we heard was Vinnie Testaverde’s name being pushed on us. That kind of choice tells me that the ones who choose the best player do not have the best knowledge of the players in the game in any single year. To start out in August making claims that so-and-so are the best in a season which hasn’t been played seems deeply limited and shows it is all a facade to sell TV time. Good luck Brady, and if you don’t receive the Heisman you’ll always be remembered as top notch.

Cade, time to get off your soap box and stop using politics, GOD, and all the other junk. Comments were made as a response to your last blog, so please save your confession for chuch, if you actually know where one is located. Invalid? Do you live under a rock or just smoke it? Thanks for showing the ND fans everywhere the little intelligence and class a Buckeye fan has and will always have whether you win a trophy or not.

The Heisman is Troy Smith’s… good game. But honestly, why are there so many Ohio State fans on ND’s website? How’d that managerial accounting exam go? The world needs ditch diggers too, ya know.

Hesiman race? What heisman race? Ha ha ha, Irish fans can now go cry in their Guiness, that’s right, Troy Smith is the Heisman tropy winner, OSU’s seventh and the only school with a multiple winner, and there is nothing you can do about it but I am sure you will try – with tears and begging. Am I wrong or does ND play Michigan just about every year and still no mention here about the passing of the legendary Bo Schembechler? You guys are sore losers, with the emphasis on loser, with no idea what it means to be a true rival with respect for your opponent. I guess that comes from being nomads, a member of no conference but free to roam the country and spread the ND mantra. It must have killed you guys when Musberger said that Tressel is the best play caller he has seen. Haven’t we been led to believe that that title belonged to Charlie Weis? After all, he has told us so and 60 minutes told us so. Troy Smith today ended the last argument that ND fans had, in their minds anyway because to most objective people it was already over, when he filleted the Michigan D, something the Mighty Quinn could not do. So please, no more tears or sour grapes, accept the Heisman voting however it turns out and then put all your energy into an early Heisman campaign for Jimmy “Limo” Clausen. I have just one more favor to ask, please don’t make the Buckeyes have to face the Irish because the only suspense would be – can the Irish D keep the Buckeyes O under 1,000 yards. You have censored my past comments and removed my posts because in your heart you know what I am saying is correct and it bothers you, it should because you are passionate about ND football, but I promise to make no more comments as I shouldn’t be on here anyway. Just one last comment – I am glad that Michigan didn’t give up on themselves like the fairweather fan, Irish Realist, yes he was a Michigan fan today. If you watched the game objectively I think you would see that Michigan DID show up and never gave up. Thank you in advance for allowing my comments.

Good job, Michigan. Way to not show up. As I figured you come in & get punked. Well, the trophy is yours, Troy & it’s not even halftime. Maybe, your bowl opponent will give you some decent competition. Say goodnight Lloyd…better win the Rose Bowl. Don’t worry they won’t let OSU play in that game.

Please, anyone could “break down a defense” behind that O-Line w/ a world-class athlete catching passes and another running the ball. He’s a great QB, but his production vs. the worst teams in the Big 10 was below average for a supposed lock for the Heisman. He should’ve put up at least decent #s in his sleep vs. those inferior teams. Instead, his defense took control & won the game. Plus, he’s the closest thing to a prolific QB that OSU has had in a long time, maybe ever. Admit it, you guys put some great players in the NFL, but you’re not known as QB U. Even michigan has you beat at that position historically.

I think the Texas game put Smith on the map for this year b/c it was on national TV & his team won handily vs. an overrated Texas defense & a freshman QB playing in his first ‘real’ college football game. The OSU defense is what impressed me in that game, Smith was simply a game manager. Now, if OSU beats Michigan (which they should easily), then the trophy is his b/c he managed his team to an undefeated season & no other player really stepped up to blow the voters away. And before, you start, yes I’m afraid Texas is just as overrated as you say ND is. Look at UTs schedule & it’s eerily similar to ND’s as far as strength. They make heroic comebacks vs. average teams like Texas Tech & Nebraska and they’re hailed as being resilient. ND has unfathomable comebacks vs. average teams MSU & UCLA and they’re labeled as unimpressive.

Plus you obviously have a lot of faith in Quinn, if you thought ND still had a chance to come back so late in the UM game before he dropped the ball & it was picked up & run in for a TD. It was ugly, but, at that point, a non-factor.

I don’t know about your stereotypical racist jab about Quinn (white QB, so he must have a great arm, but slow as molasses), but if there were statements stereotyping the Buckeye QB regarding skin color, all you limp-wristed bleeding heart liberal Wolverine & Luckeye fans would be crying for the ACLU to intercede. But you’re right, short QBs have dominated the NFL landscape for decades (Doug Flutie, Pat Haden, Dieter Brock…the list is endless).

But like you (we agree!), I could care less about the NFL. If college teams were judged by how many men they put in the league, North Carolina would be in a BCS game.

Nah, we just figured you went to OSU and therefore you lack basic writing and grammar skills.

I really honestly do not care about my QB’s pro career. While I wish every Buckeye success in the pro game, unless they play in for Cincinnati, I honestly could care less. I mean, sure, that’s great that they make money, but it is hardly a point of pride for me when Orlando Pace makes the Pro Bowl. If I ever need to use “draft status” to console me, please tear the Ohio State Sweatshirt off my back and drown me in Mirror Lake. Also, the reasons why Brady Quinn will make a better draft pick seem to be as follows:
1. He is taller
2. He is whiter
3. He is slower
Seriously, this year Troy has shown AT LEAST comperable arm power and accuracy to Quinn. His ability, coupled with the superior talent around him both on the field and on the sidelines. What you also don’t see in the statistics is the clear advantage in football intelligence this season. Troy is able to break down a defense with frighening efficiancy. Anyone who watched both quarterbacks canclearly see that Smith is trely on a different level than most college quaterbacks in this college game. Even your precious Quinn. Why is GT not a “bad game.” Quinn threw like 40 times, never once hitting the end zone. Since that game, he has not been the front runner. People forget that everyone was throwing around “The Heisman Trophey is his to lose.” ND fans figured only injury would stop him from garnering both that and a national champioship ring. Shit, it took him all 45 pass attempts to beat UCLA. That is not Heisman. An unforced fumble against a rival at home when youre down? That is not Heisman. Troy Smith? That’s Heisman.

This argument demonstrates to me that, at a minimum, the race between BQ and TS should be neck and neck. BQ is superior in total yards and TD-INT ratio; TS better in completion % and passing efficiency. BQ has more heroic performances to his name (UCLA and MSU), but he does have the UM loss on his record. So if the evidence doesn’t support TS as the obvious choice, why does ESPN keeping saying its his to lose?

One reason: ESPN (ABC) wants to beat NBC’s ratings and that means downplaying Notre Dame.

If TS dominates tomorrow, and BQ struggles against USC, TS deserves it. Right now, it should be neck and neck.

Manning is all about the stats, its the QB’s job to lead his team and win games and he also wins, just not the big ones, ask Tennessee fans. Say whay you want about Troy Smith and the fact that he has a great team around him but the real fact is he is 24-2 as starter and the Buckeyes would not be 24-2 during that stretch without him. With him fully prepared for Texas last year the Buckeyes are probably defending National Champions right now. He rises to the occasion in big games, a trait that makes him worthy of the Heisman trophy and one that I am not so sure that Brady Quinn has exhibited. That does not make him a bad QB but when you are talking about an award to honor the best player in college football I think that is what separates the two, not some obscure statistical comparison which we all know (even those who did not go to ND!) can be manouvered to favor both sides of any argument.

You’re the one that needs drug testing. Yeah, a running game is a PART OF FOOTBALL & ND doesn’t have one. If they did, Weis would most definitely do it. He says so most every damn game that he would prefer to establish the run (which they rarely can) & finish the team off w/ the pass. The point is that ND is, in most cases, one-dimensional which makes it pretty damn easy as a defense to know what’s coming. Put pressure on the QB like Michigan = Game over. Sometimes, the closest Weis can get to a ball control “run game” is hitting his receivers/back on screens.

I’d have to disagree w/ Nebraska’s assessment that he didn’t have a great performance in last year’s USC game. The guy can only do so much.

After scrambling for the go-ahead touchdown, he left the field for the final time w/ ND ahead of USC. So maybe if ND had the benefit of a better defense which could have prevented Leinart from the last minute drive, the outcome would be different. I can’t imagine the outcome being any better w/ Troy Smith or Chad Henne at the helm. Supporting casts being equal, give me Brady Quinn behind center every damn snap.

In fact, all 11 regular season games last year had ND leading after Quinn & the offense retired to the sideline. I know more is expected when it’s ND, but Quinn can’t clone himself to play defense, run the ball like Maurice Clarett & run block/pass protect like USC’s O-Line.

And I know the media LOVES to denounce ND’s “weak schedule”, but as of now, they have 6 teams w/ winning records on their schedule (Ga. Tech, Penn St., Michigan, Purdue, Navy & USC). For comparison, OSU has 4 teams w/ winning records on their schedule (Texas, Penn St., Iowa & Michigan). Ironically, Independent ND plays the same amt of BIG 10 teams w/ winning records as BIG 10-member OSU.

Those are all good stats, and let’s not forget some other aspects. Notre Dame has not recrruited well the past few years so on top of all this, many would easily say that Ohio State has way better players at every position…. Even more fuel for our argument

MightyQuinn:

“It’s clear when watching them play who the more talented quarterback is.”

It is when both are trying to be dropback passers. It is not clear at all when Smith is running the read option, which for some strange reason Ohio State is not this year.

“If you want to compare Smith to McNabb, then Quinn would be the equivalent of Manning. Everyone knows who holds the edge in that comparison.”

We sure do! Donovan McNabb does. He has more passing yards than does Manning this year despite Manning having much better receivers and tailbacks than McNabb throughout his career (Marshall Faulk, Ken Dilger, Marcus Pollard, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James). And oh yes, where Peyton Manning only has 3 or 4 career playoff victories to his credit, Donovan McNabb has been to 4 NFC title games and a Super Bowl. Why Donovan McNabb does not get more credit for his NFL success is a mystery. Then again, when you consider the racially insensitive comments that (presumably) ND fans directed at Troy Smith on the “3.3%” blog entry (which the board had to close), then perhaps not.

For a Heisman article, there is alot of NFL talk, NFL talk that started in the preseason. This year’s draft should make people think twice about mentioning draft projections. Thus, Reggie was not the first overall pick and Leinart was not the first QB drafted. If you have watched Smith play this season he looks EXACTLY like McNabb, an elite NFL QB. Smith has decided to become more of a pocket pass this year, that’s why he has 1 rushing TD. Example: Iowa game, OSU was on the 10-yard line, Smith moved in and out of the pocket to hit an open reciever when he had a clear rushing lane to the endzone. This is another reason that makes Smith a shoo-in for Heisman. Most dual-threat QB are converted to WR to quickly, just like they’re probably go to do to my guy Demetrius, and the ones that do get a chance take years to become “better pocket passers”. Smith doesn’t have to do pass alot because OSU is a great running team. They have 3 good running backs and the wide-reciever reverse is there best play. Plus, OSU has been WINNING, to the point that OSU gets to “run” the clock out and Smith is pulled out in the 4th quarter. Also, a completion percentage is based on the # of passes COMPLETED in respect to attempts. Because a QB has few attempts, especially if it’s not like 4 or 5, doesn’t mean he’ll have a high comp. %. Quinn plays in a pass heavy offense, therefore his stats will be high. Not to mention, ND has had 2-3 come from behind wins in which they had to throw the ball more than usual. But if you want NFL talk, ND fans love to mention Quinn’s NFL chances, God forbid he blows his knee out within the next 2 games that’ll be gone, too. Not to jinx him, but the NFL is a business and that’s the nature of it. Also, pass heavy college QBs have not faired well in the NFL. Examples: most of the Spurrier Florida QBs; Ryan Leaf, who was ahead of Peyton Manning on alot of teams draft broad; and Tim Couch, who went #1 overall ahead of McNabb and Culpepper, all out the league now.

The original post is one of the worst I have ever read. You can try to shape the statistics any way you want but Troy Smith was not handed the leadership for the Heisman he took it. Contrary to the statistics, which ND fans seem to love, Brady Quinn was not “lights out” in games other than the Michigan game. He was average at best in the Georgia Tech game as he continually missed open receivers and wasn’t even close to a Heisman candidate until after the Michigan State game when this mythical ND tough schedule really kicked in. When are they going to add the Coast Guard to their schedule? When someone doesn’t have a valid argument they always use irrelevent comparisons or statistics such as ND academics, NFL draft, etc. What does the NFL draft have to do with the Heisman trophy? I don’t see former Heisman winners like Jason White, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, etc. (the list goes on and on) getting measured for those ugly yellow jackets in Canton. Troy Smith has outplayed Brady Quinn game in and game out this season and that doesn’t even include the spanking he administered in last years Fiesta Bowl. So forget all your meaningless statistical comparisons and concentrate on what is actually happening on the field then take solace in the fact that ND is at least somewhat relevent for the first time in twenty years.

I agree that Brady Quinn should win the Heisman trophy because regardless of numbers, he’s an all around better quarterback than Troy Smith and everyone will find that out on draft day, regardless of whether or not Smith wins the Heisman, for Brady will be drafted before Smith unless we see the NFL continue with the Texans’ trend of last year. However, the Heisman trophy is going to be determined upon whether or not Ohio State beats Michigan and not so much on any other statistical data, in my opinion, because although Brady didn’t play well against Michigan, ND got slaughtered in that game and wins and losses can make a world of difference in every aspect of college football. Having a W agaisnt Michigan would be the one stat that Quinn could not replicate or overcome in the Heisman voters eyes and thus would ultimately and unfortunately hand it over to Smith.

While it is also true that the statistical break down that has been revealed within this article clearly gives Quinn the edge, and rightfully so, we also need to see what Smith’s numbers are in this Ohio State/Michigan game to see if this edge will remain in Quinn’s favor. Since my prediction revolves around an OSU loss to Michigan, statistical analysis such as that pertaining to this article will then determine the sway of the Heisman voters and I believe Quinn will still have the edge. Smith has not had one 300+ yard passing game all season, is projected to have 1,000 less passing yards, 7 less touchdowns, and still has not rushed for more touchdowns than Brady Quinn. The latter stat is rather surprising and I often wonder if most of the media is even aware of it, since nobody probably seen that one coming. Since Smith has not had a 300+ yard game through the air and has only thrown the ball 30 times in one game all year (thus the higher completion percentage AND QB rating than Quinn), it is unlikely that he’ll break the trend against a very respectable Michigan defense this Saturday.

Once again, if OSU wins on Saturday, you might as well have the Heisman selection committee kick back with a few frosty brews for the rest of the year and just hand Smith the hardware cuz it won’t matter what Quinn does against USC at that point. The media has looked for ways to hold Smith above Quinn all year as it is, regardless of his performanc, so if he gets the win against Michigan, I unfortunately don’t see how Quinn could possibly win the Heisman. The only thing we can do is root on Michigan this weekend for not only Quinn’s Heisman chances, but more importantly for ND’s title aspirations this season.

Well said – I’m so sick of hearing about how Mike Hart is so dominant and how he should be a Heisman frontrunner. The guy is a solid yet unspectacular back who moves the chains and doesn’t turn the ball over. Hardly Heisman criteria. In my opinion he’s a slightly faster version of Darius Walker (though his hands aren’t as good). You left Slaton off your list, by the way.

To be fair, the statistical comparisons of the opponents are skewed because Quinn has played 11 – 0 Michigan. Now, once Ohio State plays Michigan, OSU and Notre Dame will have played similar schedules. If anything, OSU will then be leading, because while OSU plays Michigan, ND will be playing ARMY. Now, true, ND will surpass OSU’s schedule strength the next week when they play Southern Cal. But if OSU beats Michigan, there will really be no argument for anyone else outside of Ray Rice of Rutgers (how’s that for alliteration? Not so good? Ah well). By the same token, if ND loses to Southern Cal, Quinn really has no argument whatsoever. His numbers are decent but nowhere near what recent winners like Chris Weinke, Carson Palmer, and Matt Leinart put up … there is this unwritten rule that to win it “on numbers” you have to be averaging at least 300 yards per game, and Quinn is under 280. Further, ND would have beaten no one in particular not only this season, but last season as well. As a matter of fact, what “big win” does Quinn have at ND? I know that he is 0 – 2 in bowl games. MAYBE you can count that Michigan win in Willingham’s last year, but Quinn didn’t play well in that game. He didn’t play well in the win over 7 – 5 Michigan last year either.

And this is something that should REALLY get you going: say ND beats Southern Cal. So what? How good is Southern Cal anyway? They would be a team that lost two games – one of them to an unranked team that got bombed by Boise State – and very easily could have lost three more. It is not so much that the games against Washington (4-7), Washington State (6-5), and Arizona State (6-4) were close, but rather that the officials OBVIOUSLY gave Southern Cal all the help that they possibly could.

Now if Brady Quinn goes off for 5 TDs and 400 yards or something like that, then perhaps that changes things, but otherwise, the Heisman winner should come from the Ohio State/Michigan game. If Ohio State wins, the winner should be Troy Smith obviously, and if Michigan wins, the winner should be Mike Hart. That Hart and Ray Rice are not even in position to win it no matter how well their teams do is the real injustice here.

Good point Cade, but actually Ted Ginn Jr. has a better QB rating (374) then either Smith or Quinn. As you say that’s the most important stat so give the Heisman to Ginn.

This is an excellent summary. It should be sent to each and every Heisman voter. Seriously, I hope you or someone will do this. With the proper data, the voters will make a more intelligent vote.

I’m sure they come out of their trailers for some stupid arguments that they can’t win.