After some internal debate, I have decided to take a different approach to Notre Dame’s recent contest against Florida State. Rather than covering the material as a detached observer I am instead going to write as the lifelong Notre Dame fan that I am and include the emotion that comes as a result.
Notre Dame has stunk most of my life. To put this statement in proper context, my very first game at Notre Dame Stadium was not Notre Dame’s “Game of the Century” victory against No. 1 Florida State in 1993. No, my very first game was the following week, when No. 1 Notre Dame lost in stunning fashion to Boston College – a loss that would eventually cost them a national championship and serve as the first sign that Notre Dame’s tenure as a college football power was nearing its end.
I will never forget the car ride home after that Boston College loss. My Dad, driving us back to our hometown in Southwest Michigan, sat silently in the car most of the way back before uttering a truth that has since become lore in my family.
“In all my life,” he began, “I have never seen Notre Dame lose inside Notre Dame Stadium. With your very first game you watched Notre Dame lose a national championship.”
My father, also a lifelong Notre Dame, had been able to endure the Fighting Irish’s fall from national relevance relatively well. On any given Saturday he was able to close his eyes and relive the legendary coaches, the numerous national championships and famed bowl matchups – such as Joe Montana’s “Chicken Soup Game’ victory against the University of Houston – and block out the blasphemy that became the state of Notre Dame football. No such luxury has existed for me.
My experiences with Notre Dame football have been a stark contrast. I endured eight straight losses to rival USC, many of which were humiliating drubbings. I watched as Notre Dame continued to lose in mysterious fashion to a Michigan program trending downward. I was in attendance for Notre Dame’s infamous “Bush Push” loss. I was also present when Notre Dame lost in double overtime to a Connecticut football program that one decade prior was not only not an FBS program but played their games in a stadium that seated less than 30,000.
I have grown up in an era where being a Notre Dame fan meant enduring agony, heartbreak and ridicule. My connection to Notre Dame’s glory has been relegated to a “greatest games” DVD set my parents gave me one year for Christmas, and it resides on my entertainment shelf fittingly near a copy of “Caddyshack”, a movie made roughly around the same time Notre Dame won its last national championship.
The Fighting Irish have had their occasional moments along the way, but all were merely phantom readings on the college football landscape’s radar. Notre Dame’s 2005 BCS appearance in the Fiesta Bowl led to an Ohio State blowout and memories of Irish quarterback Brady Quinn running for his life with A.J. Hawk’s flowingly long hair in close pursuit. The same could be said of Notre Dame’s appearance in the 2006 Sugar Bowl where LSU embarrassed the Fighting Irish, 41-14.
Notre Dame fans are tired of hearing that Notre Dame “doesn’t belong” in the national conversation, but the hard truth is that such a reputation was self-inflicted. Notre Dame was 1-16 against top five opponents since 1998 heading into Saturday’s game against Florida State, with the lone victory being over a 2005 Michigan team that would eventually finish with a 7-5 record on the season. That sole 2005 win was more akin to the low probability of flipping a coin and getting heads 17 times in a row rather than a sign of the Fighting Irish turning the corner.
In 2012, head coach Brian Kelly began to usher in the winds of change with an undefeated regular season. You could actually feel the difference, but any credibility Notre Dame started to gain was erased when Alabama brushed ND aside as a complete non-factor in the BCS National Championship game. All that Notre Dame had achieved in 2012 could be dismissed in one stroke as a fluke – that Notre Dame had simply played inferior competition and, when faced with an elite opponent, crumbled as they always do. While such a narrative was not fair to the 2012 team, ultimately Notre Dame had no one to blame but itself as to why that narrative existed in the first place.
Fast-forward to today and Irish fans everywhere are still tending to broken hearts suffered from Saturday’s loss. But such a response is too in the now and is missing the overall big picture. What was the lesson learned from Notre Dame’s contest with Florida State?
The University of Notre Dame is back.
The Fighting Irish went to Tallahassee and entered Doak Campbell Stadium as a double-digit underdog – with nearly every major media outlet expecting a blowout – and absolutely thrashed the Florida State Seminoles. And they did it upfront along the line of scrimmage – an area of the field that truly tests the power of a football program – where experts said Notre Dame would be dominated. Sophomore running back Tarean Folston emerged as star in the making with 120 yards on 21 carries for a nearly unthinkable 5.7 yards per carry. Meanwhile, on defense, Notre Dame held Florida State to 1.9 yards per carry for a paltry 50 total rushing yards.
The game was largely one-sided. Notre Dame was the only team to lead the game until the middle of the 4th quarter, and the Seminoles needed a last second offensive penalty to prevent their 22-game winning streak from being snapped on their own home turf. The Seminoles secured the win but the storyline coming out of Saturday was that Florida State managed to limp across the finish line after enduring three-and-a-half quarters of Fighting Irish savagery.
What Notre Dame needed more than anything out of its contest with Florida State was a statement. Notre Dame needed proof they belonged with the nation’s best. While a win would have more than satisfied such criterion, the necessary documentation was produced in Tallahassee on Saturday night to put the college football world on notice. Not only can the Fighting Irish play with the best, but the best was lucky to escape with a win inside of its own stadium.
Saturday’s game was more to me than just one game. It was a culmination of a lifetime of waiting to see Notre Dame ascend once again as a college football power and to no longer have to relive Notre Dame’s glory through the stories of family. I have never been more proud of the Fighting Irish football program than I am at this moment, and every single one of its players and coaches should hold their heads high.
Saturday night wasn’t a moral victory for the Fighting Irish. It was a coming out party.
While the Notre Dame football team begins its preparation for the second half of the 2014 season with the knowledge – and no longer the hope – it can play with the best, I have work to do making space on my entertainment shelf. I have a feeling that in the future I’m going to need more room for another “greatest games” DVD set.
Scott Janssen is a blogger for the Huffington Post and has authored several nationally-featured articles, including an appearance on MSNBC as a sports contributor. He talks football 24 a day, much to the chagrin of his wife and those around him. Scott can be reached at scottjanssenhp@gmail.com.
No, zip for brains. You didn’t say that. Read your pathetic excuse for mediocrity again. What you said sounds more like what a Michigan or USC fan would say about ND. What you said was anathema to any true ND fan. Do you really want me to quote your words verbatim?
Did I say 10-2 was acceptable? No! I said 10-2 exceeds the expectations of most heading into this season. Perhaps being Canadian English isn’t your first language, aye.
What I slammed you was for your pathetic statement about ND football. You really believe ND has no or so low a standard that we shouldn’t expect greatness? That’s what you said, aye. Perhaps you’re a Maple Loafs fan and just have loser hired wired into your system.
Again, aye, we’re not saying the same thing at all!
Hey, SFR,
I took a cheap shot at you, and I apologize. I should never have said what I said to you. You did not deserve it.I am sorry.
And for the record, I agree with you that our standard should be championships, and if I gave any other impression, I was wrong. I was simply trying to say that the present upward direction encourages me.
Amen brother.
I think a couple of you avid posters could use some uhnd/nd football marriage counseling. Lol seriously beginning to look and sound like high school girls clucking about how they are “right” and the other is “wrong”. Lmao
I’m just here for the entertainment of thought about NOTRE DAME FOOTBALL.
Gooooooooo IRISH
You’re right. Oops!
Nick, Oregon has never won the football national championship. They did play Auburn for the BCS title after the 2010 (Cam Newton) season.
Nick, if yours was a trick question, the “Tall Firs” of Oregon won the 1939 men’s basketball championship.
Trick is not the word I would choose to put in front of question.
ND was back in 2012. The NFL draft is proof of that. ND not beating FSU was disappointing, but 11-1 still works.
This narrative needs to stop.
2012 is the new timeline to track against.
Note – Weiss still makes more from ND than BK
I’m 73. As a youngster I huddled around the large console radio with my dad and older brother cheering on Frank Leahy’s Irish. As an ND student I sat midcourt in the old field house during the North Carolina game halftime when Ara was introduced to the students for the first time. The the golden years of Lou Holtz notching 23 consecutive wins. Then the ghastly doldrums where coaches did not effectively develop players. Some fans have not appreciated what BK has accomplised in his first 4 years inheriting players that were poorly developed athletically and mentally from an athletic perspective. Tommy achieved far more than he ever should have with his physical limits under BK’S tutelage. Now 27 frosh and sophs contributing. Losing less than a handful of players next year. A top10 or better ’15 recruiting class. I remember Leahy occassionally starting his #2 units because he didn’t like the way #1s practiced. ND is moving toward that level of depth. ND IS entering another golden age.
Well said!!
My most memorable game for me was in 2000 against Nebraska. Notre Dame list 27-24 in OT. I was sixteen and sitting a stationary bicycle in my living room wearing a sauna suit trying to make weight for a wrestling meet on Monday. The image of the ball sailing through the uprights as an entire stadium literally fell to tears is a hard thing to forget. But you know it gave me the idea that Notre Dame, however mediocre, is ALWAYS in it. You can never, as an opposing team, allow yourself to believe an underdog line from Vegas. Golson has shown that determination several times this season. 4 th down and WHATEVER is his best down!!
Great posts everywhere. I’m in your dads shoes …. Hav seen it all since 1964. someone pointed out the lack of head coaching as the main reason. That is exactly the case. Notre Dame is back and whether or not we win a Natl Champshp or not well be in the discussion almost every year as long as Kelly is here. You can see the change especially this year …. And look at recruiting. This is lining up to be BIG over the next 4 years. Sit back and enjoy. The depth and more talent is coming and the really good news is that we have the guy who knows how to develop it.
Well, Jack, just to show the assembled multitude that your wimpy little threats are as misguided as your strange, inaccurate, baseless predictions, I am calling you out! Let’s consider it a blanket call out.
Cyber threats. I have a few friends in a different milieu who call such trheats as yours being a “studio gangster.” If the title fits……
Now, be a good little boy and walk your talk and post your pregame preciction for Florida State. You need to show the other posters your
“work.” (sic)
Predictions are a fool’s errand. Let me break it down for you. It’s the work that fools do. It’s not real tricky. The future is unknowable in sports, markets and the weather, even in the long term. So, basically, I’ll leave that to you, in your area of non-expertise. 6-6???
Really?
What’s shameful is that ESPN, CBS and Fox have cowed these ex-coaches and players into making predictions. People who strapped a helmet on know that you can not predict the result or the margin.
It’s a fool’s errand. Have at it.
And there is one thing about Notre Dame fans. You can always tell a Notre Dame fan, but you can’t tell him much. I had to break up a fight in a restaurant after the ’74 USC game because two Notre Dame alums had a
“different view” of what transpired and why. These jimbronis were in each other’s weddings, had been roomates, but each was trying to tell the other how to think and what to believe. It just doesn’t work with Notre Dame alums. Never has, never will.
Duranko I don’t make threats. I don’t like you I think you a poetic jerkoff. I would like to draw you back to a couple of articles from 2012. You stated ND ‘ S defensive line was BC caliber, we’ll they played in a BCS game and what happened to that BCS caliber defense, it got smoked by an SEC offense. Now your saying in a recent article ND lacked depth on 2012 but now it’s legit. We’ll see if it is legit.
Now breaking up a fight between to ND alums in 74, am I to be scared of you? I didn’t start this Duranko but I sure as shit don’t back down. So go back to your world of country clubs and ND alums.
To quote myself I believe it was after the Syracuse game and I said if ND plays like that they will be 6-6. Now have they turned the ball over 4 times in a game, no. Turnovers =losses even in your unicorn world jerkoff. Keep right your stupid poetic articles saying ND is back and a playoff caliber team. I would rather wait and see at the end of the season when they either dominate or every game goes to the 4th Qt. I like BK I think he is doing a great job, I just am able to see flaws in a team you are not. For now on I will refer to you as jerkoff because that is what you are. As far as threats I never say anything I’m on line I’m not willing to say to your face and I didn’t go to the country club as Zorich put it.
JDH,
If you get beaten over and over again, and never really find a way to consistently win the big games, then, sorry my friend, say what you want, it’s a loss. No one wins titles by pointing out how they lost. Tell that to Lou Holtz, who twice got screwed, especially in 1993.
I certainly respect your opinion. I don’t doubt your fervent desire to see ND back on top. But that will only happen when ND wins big enough to not leave it up to chance or the refs. When ND football gets to that point, no one will be talking about this subject. Because no one will care anymore about moral victories. Funny how winning titles renders moral victories superfluous.
Why are we talking about 1993 or winning titles? I don’t understand what that has to do with the subject at hand. I’m talking about the FSU game and only the FSU game from 2014.
And who is getting beaten over and over again? ND was undefeated in the regular season in 2012 and got exposed in the NC game. History. 2013 we lost our QB but again, history.
I’m concerned about 2014. I called the 2014 FSU game a “loss”, albeit an obviously controversial one. And that the circumstances of that loss make a difference. I never talked about it being a “moral victory”.
We have 5 games left. One game at a time. You win titles by getting better than the day you were before. This team appears to be doing that, but we’ll see.
I’m not sure what point I am supposed to concede.
What point did I ever request you concede, JDH? Please enlighten me.
You win titles winning games, especially games like @ FSU, all the time, not just occasionally. Certainly you don’t win titles by almost winning.
But I agree with you we’ll find out a lot about this team and this program under BK in the next 5 games.
I can accept for this season a 10-2 record. That exceeds expectations. But starting next season, ND football needs to be a regular in the NC discussion once more. Enough of excuses, refs screwed us, would’ve, could’ve, should’ve, wait til next year, almost back BS.
Wait a minute. If 10- 2 exceeds expectations, then what are those expectations? I thought only CHAMPIONSHIPS was an acceptable expectation for you? It sure sounds like 10- 2 is ‘going in the right direction’ for you. In other words, 2 losses are ACCEPTABLE to you somehow. So, if two losses are exceeding expectations, how is it that you go around slamming people who say essentially the same thing??/ Your hypocrisy is stunning. All I was saying is that, given the cesspool of mediocrity we had fallen into, I can accept a loss or two this season, as you just admitted you can. I said it is going in the right direction – which you functionally just admitted here, after growling at everyone who said the same damn thing slightly differently. We all want championships, ziphead. We all deserve a little more respect for being encouraged by the progress of this team in the last few years.
Whether or not certain fans frame this loss as a “moral victory” has literally no bearing whatsoever on the state of the program. If some on here want to call it that, who cares? It’s an opinion, nothing more. Why the need to scream “THERE ARE NO MORAL VICTORIES AT ND!” Call the FSU game what it was- an extremely controversial loss.
Anyone who thinks the way we lost that game is immaterial, as if a “loss is a loss”, as if it was the same thing as getting blown out, doesn’t understand sports at all. That doesn’t even make sense intuitively. If that provides you no solace, oh well. But it does make a difference with the voters.
Ditto
The problem with Willingham was that his last 2 recruiting classes were no where near where they needed to be. He was a mediocre coach. Look at his tenure at Washington if you want proof. I was excited in 2002 when they were 8-0. He was never able to replicate that success. I really do wish he had. I did like his no-nonsense way of coaching. It was quite a change fromt he Davie years. He is not a good coach. Doesn’t mean he’s a creep or a bad guy, but a head coach, no.
And I think people forget sometimes, ND was going after Urban Meyer, not Charlie Weis. Weis was what, the 3rd guy they went after. They thought they had a window of opportunity with Meyer. Frankly, in retrospect, I’m glad Meyer didn’t come to ND, but that was who they were going after.
Re: Weis, he’s a very good QB coach, I believe. Maybe he could find some success as an offensive coordinator. During a number of games, ND scored a lot of points. The problem is they couldn’t stop the other team from scoring more. Weis was not a good head coach either, again, his record at Kansas shows that as well before he was fired there.
But Weis did do one thing of benefit. He brought recruiting back to where it needed to be at ND. He couldn’t develop them very well as a team, but we were recruiting top 10 classes again.
I really believe BK is the real deal. It also helps that the first time since Davies was hired as HC, it at least appears ND got the top guy they wanted. They didn’t have to go to 2 or 3 on the list. An BK has had success wherever he was.
I noted before, I really believe 3 mediocre coaches really did some damage to the ND brand. If BK had come on after Holtz, it probably would have been a different story. But BK and Swarbick have spent the last 5 years rebuilding the program. I think we will see the benefits soon, very soon. I don’t think it’s any illusion this time. I see fundamental improvements. We just almost beat the number 2 team in the country and beat them in every other statistical category. It’s not enough, no, but ND is almost there. BK knows defense and an offensive line still wins football games. Other teams are starting to get nervous about having ND on the schedule. ND is no longer a cakewalk for top teams.
I can only say that I was so wrong about that game. I thought it would be a blow out but we could have won. Kelly is the real deal. I said that from dat one. At least I’m right sometimes.
Oh, duranko, you of short memory and wisdom. Lest you forget. How many praised ND’s win in Ann Arbor against a top 5 UM team and claimed ND was back? I guess your memory is as limited as your intellect. Again, little man-child, so sad to be you. But you keep on trying oh petulant one. You’re bound to be right every now and then. After all, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Although I doubt you’re ever right about anything twice in one day, certainly not about ND football.
duranko,
So sensitive, little man. So sad to be you, oh weak of mind and will.
Your attempts at intellect are so pathetic they aren’t even risible any longer, duranko. You’re nothing but a self-righteous clown.
I agree I shouldn’t have said “we” and thereby included a self-hating, so-called ND apologist for mediocrity like you among those of us who want to see ND football return to greatness. You instead want to post you pathetic blogs and think yourself so witty and important. You’re impotent perhaps, but certainly not important.
Oh, hypocrite, don’t call me son. You ain’t my daddy. I’m yours all day long, though!
That fat fraud never had a return to Glory Victory. I don’t want to refight the battle again because of sensitivities, but there were many ND constituencies, highly concentrated among the faux subway alumni who could never, ever, stomach that Willingham was named head coach at ND. They seethed, and not about xs and os. It was a bridge, no not Edmund Pettus, too far.
The campaign of undercutting. stereotyping, transference, doubt and subterfuge began immediately.
The Guinness Book of World Record holder of screwjob severance pay in looting his alma mater was gushed over after he lost two home games. TWO home games lost and he got a raise.
Willingham was 8-0 with ND’s only road win at Tallahasee and got pilloried for resorting to green jerseys against BC.
There4 was excitement about Weis, but it was based on some very very bad juju. And Jenkins was right in the middle of some serious clerical misbehavior.
And, son, don’t every include me in your “we” I ain’t in yours and you sure as hell ain’t in mine. In the immortal and malapropistic words of Samuel Goldwyn, when you define your “we” “include me out.”
Blame Kevin White for that disaster of a severance for Weis. He was also responsible for scheduling subpar teams for ND.
I actually really don’t blame Weis for that. Someone is offering you millions, you’d be a fool to say no. And frankly, I don’t think there was any question in his mind they would win NC’s during his tenure.
In a way, his arrogance ended up being his undoing.
I agree ND is heading in the right direction. But ND football needs to finally arrive at its destination and not be perpetually on the road back to greatness.
Under both Willingham and Weis the football team had “Return to Glory” victories that proved to be illusory.
ND football will only really be all the way back when we’re not talking about this issue at all any more.
I doubt very much anyone on here would be talking about moral victories if the Irish were on a 20 plus game winning streak and had won a NC or two in that time.
That’s what we should all expect of ND football. Not pretty defeats or ugly moral victories.
Shaz, this isn’t a sophomore philosophy class on the meaning of beauty. An ugly win is always better than a pretty loss, or at least as good.
Moral victories in the final analysis are for losers. I for one will never accept that ND should ever be in the moral victories business. ND should be in the real victories business only. Moral victories don’t win national titles or bring in big-time recruits, at least not if all you have year in and year out are moral victories.
With all due respects to our loyal friend Shaz, I insist that the day this thread of discussion is no longer relevant, then and only then can any of us really take seriously that ND football is all the way back.
Go Irish!
I agree with Shaz that despite the loss, it may still end up being a winner in the recruiting front. I said earlier that ND was crawling out of the hole almost 20 years of mediocrity have left us. We are closing in, and it will be recruits that help ND become and stay elite. So yes, for ND to hang with and almost beat FSU is meaningful.
I do agree, ND is not back just yet. They need to win the big games, but they are closer than they’ve been in a long time.
Under Willingham and Weis, this would have been a blow out, for FSU. They would have beat us 41-10 probably and never looked back.
SFR,
I didn’t call you out in some vain attempt to change your mind and regret if my words were taken that way.
You have your view, which has been stated many times over the years on what you think ND football should be.
That’s your view, and it works for you, and that’s great.
I just see Notre Dame as a Faith based institution that puts Integrity, Character, Education, and yes, even “Morality” far above the winning of a football game.
Like it or not, That’s Notre Dame… Always has been, always will be.
Please don’t hold it against me if I choose find enjoyment in the purity and basics of college football, of Notre Dame Football, and of the intrigue and pageantry of armature competition it provides.
I would say our only real difference as ND fans is while I can appreciate, admire, and enjoy the basics of good blocking, tackling, running, passing, catching, kicking, coaching, team play, sportsmanship, and team spirit… regardless of the final score… you require a “W” in the win column to do so.
I’m cool with that.
So please accept my best wishes, and I truly hope, with all sincerity, that someday your dream comes true.
Someday I’ll wish upon a star,
Wake up where the clouds are far behind me
Where trouble melts like lemon drops
High above the chimney top
That’s where you’ll find me
Oh, somewhere over the rainbow way up high
And the dream that you dare to, why, oh why can’t I? I?
Your singing voice is beautiful Ron! 🙂
If you think his singing is beautiful, you should should hear his rendition of Aqualung on the Jazzy Flute!
He knows he can pop in anytime and I’ll have the following waiting for him at my table:
3 fingers of Glenlivet with a little bit of pepper and some cheese
Shaz,
No problem and certainly no need to apologize. You and I are not that far apart. Not like some others here who say that ND standards and expectations are so low we should just accept mediocrity. I know my friend Shaz has too much integrity to ever go down that defeatist route.
I think ND can and should make it back to the top for the very reasons you posit, Shaz. Csll me a helpless romantic, but I believe that the integrity ND shows is exactly what college football needs right now. To win with integrity is to win double. We (minus duranko!) should all want to see ND at the top and not just wish it so. Let’s not confuse settling for some kind of sober realism. It’s just really nothing but sad pessimism.
Shaz is no pessimist. He’s an ND man through and through and as such we (again, duranko excluded) want the same thing, namely, for ND to win and win it all but with its customary integrity.
Go Irish!
Sorry, Shaz, moral victories are for BC or Northwestern, not ND.
The day we no longer have to talk about moral victories for ND marks the time when ND will truly be back.
“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”
SFB, I didnt know ND had arrived. No moral victories?Not so fast my friend. We are just now getting back into the conversation of being a legit contender. At least down here in SEC country. Until now we haven’t been taken seriously.
And it hurt my friend.. year in and year out.
We are taking steps but dont forget too quickly what we had to endure to get here.
I didnt like losing to FSU as much anyone but damn I feel about ND football again.
Good*
ja4nd,
Good to hear from you.
I live in the south too and know what you mean.
Over all, I agree. But baby steps need to become big-boy stompings at some point.
The let’s wait and see approach is getting way to old for my liking.
Let’s not forget we’ve been down this alleged return to glory road before in the recent past. Didn’t work out so good, did it?
I think we all feel good about the direction of the program, friend. But lets not confuse direction with destination. We need to finally arrive back at the top and not endlessly talk about heading there!
I think there are moral victories like this one in college football.
And I think it will show itself in recruiting.
The ND vs FSU game was the most watched college football game this year, and the most watched game on ESPN since the Notre Dame win over USC in 2012.
An estimated 13,251,000 viewers tune in.
And you can bet a whole lot of those viewers were high school football players who are smart enough to understand who the better team was that day regardless of the final score.
Sorry Scott but stats are meaningless. The scoreboard is the only stat that matters. ND football will not be back until ND wins a big time bowl game and an eventual National title. Are we better than we have been? Yes. But the standard is extremely high at ND. There are no moral victories in football.
“The scoreboard is the only stat that matters.” Not with the playoff committee. The fact that ND outplayed FSU in most statistical categories and “how they lost”, in an extremely controversial way, cannot be overstated. If ND had lost by touchdowns, that could not be overstated either.
…assuming ND wins out of course…
Could not disagree more. There are moral victories in every sport. This may be one of them, we will see. And the standards are not that high at ND any more, since we haven’t won anything for such a long time. Kelly is moving us in the right direction, and that is great in my book.
This is the mentality that has taken over many ND fans. Now we are happy with moral victories? I guess this is what losing does to people. A loss is a loss and it sucks.
“The standards are not that high at ND any more.” Wow!!!
I’d never thought I’d hear these words come from an alleged ND fan ever. What can I say? With fans like this who needs “Angry Eagle” and “Buckeye”!
I guess “duranko’s” venomous mediocrity is making its way though this body faster than I even expected.
The call was by a horrible ref who has screwed ND in the past Now is the
time to concentrate on the rest of the season which can still be great and
drive all the ND haters nuts. GO IRISH!
Well I am one of the most positive people going but to me it is still a loss and I am very upset. We were definitely robbed and it sickens me that referees get away with it. If they had trouble determining who the penalty was on then it should not have been on either as it was too ambiguous. The flag should have been picked up. They let the subjective call go and ignored the objective call of removing the helmet. How can any of it be justified or accepted.
Crazy Ivan,
I know it’s not much right now, but keep in mind that on a cold, hard, November day in the year 2018, The Florida State Seminoles will travel to South Bend IN, … to our house, for a regular season rematch.
And though we don’t have painted horses, flaming spears, or tomahawk war chants, we don’t need them…
We have November in South Bend Indiana, and that’s more than enough!
Indeed!
But I’m hoping for a rematch this season- in the playoffs- hopefully, with a different crew of refs. Why wait? Let’s enact immediate consequences, and with Gary Coleman look-a-like Jameis at QB, too.
Moral victories usually are just something the losers tell themselves to make them feel better.
However, if there was ever such a thing as a “good” loss, ND had it last week. ND dominated in many categories. Sure, they lost the most important stat, the score, however FSU basically won on a penalty (good call or bad call, it’s still the truth).
Fans should take heart that BK is not resting on his laurels. He is angry about the call, and then the non-call on the FSU player who threw his helmet. But he also is saying they need to take it out of the officials hands by scoring more. He knows there are things ND still needs to work on.
I agree with Scott in the article. I became a full time ND fan around 1998. I have experienced for myself the false hope of Willingham’s first year and Weis’ first 2 years only to be exposed. Weis took one step in the right direction, and that was his ability to recruit elite players. He just was unable to develop those players into a dominant team. I also give Weis some credit for some moves he made in his tenure, such as the team gathering for the alma mater. He did understand ND was a special place to coach. It turned out he was a better QB coach than a head coach.
I see a difference with BK however. He and Swarbick are making fundamental changes. It’s no accident the SEC has been dominant for the last several years. They are looking to emulate some of the things the SEC is doing to be successful, though their are lines they will not cross (relaxing academic standards, expecting a certain modicum of behavior, etc.). Field turf is one of those changes. I know some traditionalists are still sore about that, but don’t think for one minute if Knute Rockne or Frank Leahy thought it would give them an advantage, they wouldn’t have asked for field turf too. Also, look at the scheduling of teams. We are committed to 5 ACC games, but Swarbick is looking for elite opponents for the other games. He is not scheduling teams like Western Michigan, Tulsa and Nevada. He’s scheduling Ohio State, Georgia and Oklahoma.
I think Swarbick are moving the football program in the right direction. Only in the last year or two have I realized that close to 20 years of mediocrity really damaged ND football. It’s taken a long time, and a lot of clawing and kicking to get out of the hole, but this time, I really believe we are almost out of the hole.
“I think Swarbick are moving the football program in the right direction”
I meant to say Swarbick and BK
I agree completely. How fans soon forget when some success comes. We should all be humbled by now.
Jack, you lost all credibility with your 6-6 prediction and that
nonsensical prediction you made before the FSU game.
Why don’t you repost that so people will see just how errant you are.
You have tried to feign expertised in evaluating this Notre Dame team, but
your record speaks for itself.
The Notre Dame team has a fine record. You, on the contrary, do not.
You’ve been revealed. By yourself.
Duranko,
I made a prediction that this team would be 6-6. However your optimism is sometimes a little homerish. This team does have flaws. Everyone thought A&M was a top five team and they are not. Until I see ND dominate a team they should and run through most of their schedule I am not convince they are a top 5 team. I don’t see them better than the following teams:
1. Mississippi State
2. Alabama
3. Oregon
At ND Duranko it’s not about top 5 finishes it’s about NC’s. They haven’t won one since 88. The last top 5 team ND beat was a lousy Michigan team that went 7-5 that year. You can keep painting rainbows and unicorns, but every BCS game ND plays they get drubbed.
Now as far as attacking me and my prediction that was easy for you, but we can go back through your colorful pros and point out several predictions of yours that never came true, but I guess your perfect, maybe I should call you JC.
Finally, don’t question my credibility on this site. I made an opinion and that is what this site is for, if you can’t my opinions don’t read them or are you the police agent on this site?
By “dominate a team they should” do you mean like Michigan 31-0 *actually 38-0?
Do you mean outplay FSU in most every meaningful statistical category only to get the win taken from them by a missed dead-ball personal foul, that would have put the Irish on the 7 yard line, 1st down, with 13 seconds?
Pray, name one team, in the entire nation, that has absolutely DOMINATED every game they’ve played.
@ JDH
While watching that dreadful final 12 seconds unfold last Saturday night, fellow ND fans watching with me started yelling; They’re going to take that away from us!” I responded, “No, the flag is for that guy taking off his helmet.” I saw it, but not one ref did?!
And the greatest indictment of that “missed” helmet removal no-call is it highlighted in that moment the lack of discipline/responsibility their players are allowed (and FSU is not alone)- with the coddling/cover-up of inappropriate and sometimes criminal activity to protect and maximize revenue enhancement “at any cost”- and how often correcting that in college and pro football is ignored- until it’s so obvious (see: cheat Pete Carroll, Ray Rice et.al) they have no choice but to deal with it to protect an imaginary “image” of fair play and responsibility that seldom exists. If FSU wins out and wins it all, which I neither expect nor hope for, then the issue of “winning at all costs” will resurface- and at least from that discussion, something good might come of it. Rule 1 of an educational institution (and I taught in several for 39 years) is to teach there are appropriate (and, to be most effective, timely) consequences for inappropriate actions, albeit attempting that the punishment fits the crime- necessary life lessons too many star athletes, politicians, and moneyed interests are protected from . . . and too often expect no accountability for what they do until it’s too late for those victimized by them. Sorry for the rant-
JDH- but the “missed dead ball personal foul” was ignored, not missed.
Jack you are free to have your opinion. But your negativism about Notre Dame is documented–BY YOU BUBBA!!
It goes back to your ripping on Golson and undercutting the evidence of his progress in the second half of 2012.
But Jack, I stand by my statements. I just want you to stand by yours, that’s all I ask. Would you pleae
repost the pregame prediction you made before Florida State. You know what they say: clean air is the best disinfectant, the light of day is the best illuminant.
That bit of EVIDENCE, coupled with your nonsensical 6-6 forecast will tell people who and what you are. It won’t help me, I already know.
Go ahead, Jack, come out in the light, repost that pregame FSU prediction.
I thought they were going to get killed, but I also think FSU is not a top team. Duranko why don’t you grow a sack and make prediction. Ohh that’s right you could be wrong. Let me give you your prediction Nancy, ND wins every game and makes the playoffs. Let’s look back at your National Championship prediction in 2012. Oh that’s right you just wax poetically about nothing.
My evaluation of ND is this. Good team with flaws that can be exposed. Golson has horrible ball security and is known to turn the ball over. The defense is good but allowed Jamis to go 15-16 in the second half. That isn’t an elite defense.
Until ND beats a top 5 team I’m not sold. There schedule at the beginning of the year looked tough, but how does it look now, pretty pathetic.
Rice lost to Old Dominion
Michigan is a mess
Purdue horrible
Syracuse below average team
Stanford was just dominated by ASU’s defense that gave up 60 to UCLA
North Carolina has a good offense and a horrible defense. They haven’t held a good team under 40 this year
FSU has trouble with NC State and Clemson with a back up QB.
Now if you look at those teams in the beginning of the year you would say tough schedule, now it’s a joke. ND should have beat Standford by 2 td’s, killed Syracuse and they had a chance to put NC away and Golson as usual fumbled the ball in his own territory which led to a TD.
I am not getting fooled again like 2005 and 20006 when ND got stomped by inferior opponents in bowl games. I am not getting fooled again like 2012 when they go spanked by Alabama. It even goes back to the Oregon game they played when Ocho Cinco crushed them. So Duranko keep playing the land of Frosty Lucky charms with your leprechaun, I will live in reality and I see a team that has much more to prove. I hate to agree with some people on this site, but they need to go 11-1 and crush the teams on the schedule before I say their back. They need a couple of years in a row with 10 win season to say they are back. Hell Spurrier has had 3 ten win seasons at South Carolina.
One final thing don’t ever call me out or I will crush every stupid article and bullshit post you put up. You don’t have the nuts to predict a game because you are a poet. You probably never strapped on a chin strap and walked on the field of battle you sat on the sidelines with you pen and paper.
Duranko,
When was Oregon’s last NC? Just curious?
A loss is a loss. There are no moral victories only victories. I have heard many times ND is back. ND once rolled into Tallahassee and dominated the Noles. They were back until they lost to BC and got dubbed by USC and got Carson Palmer the Heisman. Than got killed in their first CBS game. They will not be back until they are feared by opponents and looked at in the same regard of Alabama or any other dynasty
I hated when Notre Dame played on CBS…
There was nothing more annoying than having to listen to Brent Mushyburger keep saying “The Luck of the Irish” after evey big ND play.
I agree. Can’t stand the announcers. They are so bias.
Come on, Burgundy, that’s your job 😉
Speaking of Bush Push, we are going to need a catchy name to remember this game by.
1) No Pix Six
or
2) No six pix fix
or the less accusatory;
3)Six or Pix
That’s all for now . . .
I don’t know if I was a regular on here then, by I vividly recall coming on here and other sites and reading all about how ND football was back after the “Bush Push” game against USC. I even bought into that line of thinking myself then. History has shown that all the talk about ND finally being truly back have all turned out to be more wishful thinking than anything else. As “pete” says so well, ND football won’t really be back until it wins consistently regardless of the opponent. ND will be back when we don’t talk at all about moral victories.
The ND football I grew up watching didn’t need moral victories or excuses made for it. It won regardless of the odds or opposition. When that becomes the norm again, then ND football will truly be all the way back. Until then, it’s all wishful thinking.
OUTSTANDING READ! What has hurt Notre Dame in the past has been simply selecting the wrong men as head coaches who had no vision on how to win at a elite level. Notre Dame is a different animal and it takes the right man to succeed on the field and off. I liked Weis to start but his problem was that he thought he was the smartest mman in the room who would just out score everyone often having his back to the field while the defense was playing not to mention his favorites.
Brian Kelly has been a blessing to this program and great from day one building this program in the trenches from the ground up building the program in his image. Kelly has been a winner everywhere he has coached and more important Kelly wanted to accept the challenge of coaching here in South Bend. Notre Dame is the HARDEST place in the country to win at a elite level and a lot of elite level coaches are not willing to accept that challenge. Its very hard to win with a bunch of freshmen and sophmores playing this much football but this coaching staff is finding ways week in and week out to do it.
Regardless of how this season plays out next year could be a historic season even greater than that magical 2012 season. We could possibly have 19 or 20 returning starters which is unheard of. I am by no means writing this season off because I am still hoping that this program runs the table and plays with a lot of anger after the Fla St loss. Maybe if the football gods bless us we could have another crack at the Seminoles.
So proud of how the team played at Florida State,Notre Dame is back to when Lou Holtz was at the helm.
I believe Notre Dame is back, but also agree it won’t be determined until the next 5 games are played. Also, I am a harsh judge. We aren’t back until we win a national championship and string 3 or 4 great years together like Ohio State, Alabama, Auburn, Florida State,etc have. Notre Dame’s talent is close to elite. We will never know, but can always wonder if Notre Dame didn’t have the 5 suspended players out if they might have won against Florida State.
But, grasshopper, the journey of a thousand NCs begins with a great game vs #2 Noles…
last saturday’s game goes on the list of infamous nd losses by bs calls ie 1964 usc game and the 1991 orange bowl. But, the only difference is we can still make up for it unlike those other two seasons. I think nd is back too, but must not lose sight. They have a great opportunity before them, but it will not be easy. They know now how well they can play and have to bring that intensity to every game in november. Even if we go 11-1 we will not be assured a playoff birth, but will for sure be in a major bowl. Even a major bowl win and a 12-1 record would be a massive achievement and building block. we haven’t won a major bowl since the 93 season. And it would set this team up nicely for 2015 with most of these amazing players coming back. Go Irish!
i grew up in the same era as well, it’s nice that ND is back and playing well, despite the outcome that was one thrilling game!! If we take care of business we will still make the playoffs and hopefully get sweet sweet revenge. It’s too bad a referee has a grudge against ND, hopefully he won’t be able to alter a game again, he should be removed from working ND games! https://www.facebook.com/BanPatRyanFromND
I can completely relate to this article. Born in ’85, I was too young to remember the last Irish national championship. I still have a few remaining memories of the end the of Holtz era, including the ’93 game (with announcer Charlie Jones talking about the Ghosts of Notre Dame as the Irish took the field – a time when I didn’t cringe every time an Irish announcer spoke (i.e. Mike Mayock, Pat Haden)), but most of my experience as an Irish fan has been marred with false hope. I, too, was at the Bush-push game, where I idiotically bought a fake ticket and somehow still managed to get into the stadium with it.
I mostly agree with the article, and I definitely appreciate the sentiment and viewpoint, but the realist in me says the rest of the season will determine whether the Irish are truly “back.” First, I think FSU is overrated, and will lose a regular season game before the season ends. Sure they’re talented, but they’ve been exposed, and not just by the Irish. Second, the Irish haven’t beaten anyone yet. Stanford was a last-second win, and although I respect the Cardinal, they’re nothing more than a 3-loss team. So other than FSU, the Irish opponent quality has been mediocre at best. I refuse to consider a close loss (albeit an infuriatingly controversial one) to render the Irish back. It’s the same trap I’ve been falling into for years.
ASU and USC are both going to be extremely difficult to beat on the road. Both are loaded with talent. What separates the vintage ND teams from the more recent ones to which we’ve grown accustomed is how they finish the season. If the Irish lose one or both of those games, go on to a 10-2/9-3 record, can we really say they’re “back”? I’ll be convinced when they take care of business, finish with one loss, and make a run at the playoffs. Go Irish!
Speaking of Mayock and Haden, why can’t we get some better “homers” calling the game? Objectivity is one thing, but c’mon man, how’s about some excitement for the HOME TEAM!
Vin Scully’s is arguably the greatest sportscaster of all time. He can be objective and criticize the Blue Crew with the best. But in the end, you KNOW he bled Dodger Blue.
We need some guys in the TV booth who bleed GOLD AND BLUE, THRU AND THRU!
Addendum: or a Chick Hearn, L.A Laker great. Knew BB throughout, but who didn’t get eggcited with, “The door’s closed, the light’s out, the butter’s gettin’ hard, and the jello is jigglin!”
Great posts/ the Irish played a great game/ outplayed FSU the whole game. Not surprised the way they played, they are a very good team. Nobody in the country can cover our recievers and our defense is just getting better and better. The penalty at the end was a farce/ but what’s even more was the lack of all the no call holding on FSU offensive line. The picture above isa clear indicator of what FSU’s line did all night. It held the Irish defense all night/ They spent as much time in the Noles backfield as Winston.
Irish have nothing to feel bad about.
I’m excited to see the offensive line finally starting to play well. If this continues the Irish can really start punishing people. We should be able to really put the lumber on Navy. Can’t wait.
I’ve followed ND football since ’43.
The group of lads on this team are as fine of a bunch of student athletes that I can remember. Coach Leahy would have been proud of them!!!
bob drake, it is great to hear this testimony of yours, for you are one who truly knows.
The “RKG” emphasis was ridiculed by some, but Kelly and his lads have stuck to it. He keeps talking about Notre Dame “shopping in a different aisle.”
Recent events have only clarified that. When
Will Mahone left, he sent out a very classy tweet. I have a soft spot for Will, because if every Notre Dame student who ever got in a drunken brawl, in the bend or at home, were banished, the reunions would be much smaller.
Similarly when Kendall Moore left.
That is why the KeiVarae Russell incident was so poignant. He had had the male lead in the school play and had become a writer of poetry, both of which non-football features were emphasized in a “Strong and True” edition back in the Spring.
If Coach Leahy would have been proud of them, that’s good enough for me!!
bleacher implies we was had. it was not “obvious.”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2238396-was-notre-dame-robbed-by-officials-in-florida-state-game?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=notre-dame-football
It’s time to move on son. We’re all upset but it’s time to move on. We’re ranked #7 which is pretty damn good this point in the season. This can be a great year. We learn then go show them, starting with Navy.
Your right on Ron.
Right. If you told me in August that we would be ranked #7 with the suspensions and injuries we have had, I would be rejoicing.
Absolutely well put Ron
Wow, this shows the BS call even better than the regular view. Fuller didn’t even attempt to block whatsoever. The defender simply cut off his slant pattern drawing the contact. What a load of crap. What sucks is that I LOVE Everett Golson. This could have gone down as possibly the biggest game winning drive in ND history for him, solidified his spot as a potential #1 in the Heisman race for knocking off the undefeated defending national champs, etc. It’s really a shame that it was all taken away like that, that’s all…
Golson is creating a lot of buzz from the Seminole game with NFL Scouts. I have been looking at some mock drafts as well as other things and a lot of those has him rated as a second round pick especially with Russell Martin’s s success who Golson is most compared to.
I am just glad Golson shot down any questions about the draft a couple of weeks back.
Yeah, don’t worry, as we get close to the play-offs someone will drop a bomb like proof Winston took money and FSU will have to forfeit every game past Syracuse.
Great article and I agree with you 100%. I grew up in the same time period as you and have endured the same mediocrity (or down right horrible teams) ND had fielded.
While I was extremely disappointed Saturday night and Sunday, I came away with the same sentiment – this team can play with the best. I’ve heard all the pundits say this FSU team isn’t like last years. And it’s not. But it is still ranked #2. Still on a 23 game win streak. And they were out played, pushed around the field and quite lucky to have won.
And over the last 20 years of watching ND, I’ve never seen them play a team of FSU’s caliber and dominate like that. You mentioned that blow out losses to OSU and LSU in 05 and 06 and Bama in 12. I’d also include the Fiesta Bowl loss to Oregon State, Oklahoma last year, the list goes on.
I think we’ll look back at this game and see this is where the programmed turned – mentally. They’ve had the talent over the last few years, but this game could be a springboard to the emotional/mental aspect of competing.