Notre Dame lost another marquee game to an elite team a couple days ago. Predictably, the flood of “Notre Dame has maxed out” and “Brian Kelly will never get us over the hump” posts and comments have been flooding in. Guess what though? Notre Dame hasn’t maxed out under Kelly and bigger, better things could very well be in store for the Irish because as we’ve seen in his six years at the helm of the Irish, Kelly is not afraid to change his approach in order to improve the program and move it forward.
Remember purple faced Brian Kelly and the guy who defiantly stated after the Tulsa loss in 2010 “get used to it”? We haven’t seen that guy in a while have we? No, Kelly realized quickly that he needed to change his approach at Notre Dame to see the same type of results he’s had at other stops and guess what? He’s had a pretty amount of success along the way.
In the 13 years before his arrival at Notre Dame, the Irish football program went the three major bowl games and produced just three 1st round NFL draft picks (Luke Petigout, Jeff Faine, and Brady Quinn) and three consensus All-Americans (Jeff Samardzija, Golden Tate, and Shane Walton
In the six years that Kelly has been at the helm of the Notre Dame program, his squads have gone to two major bowl games and produced four first round picks (Harrison Smith, Michael Floyd, Tyler Eifert, Zack Martin) and three consensus All-Americans (Manti Te’o, Jaylon Smith, Ronnie Stanley). Depending on how thing shake out here, that number of first round picks could swell to seven in a few months depending on the extent of Jaylon Smith’s injury and Will Fuller’s decision to stay in school or leave a year early.
This year alone Kelly’s teams produced two of those consensus All-Americans and could have as many as three first round draft picks which just so happens to be the same number of first round picks that Notre Dame produced during the entire 14 year run of Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham, and Charlie Weis combined.
Hmmmmm. Kelly’s latest team might just produce the same number of first rounders as the program he inherited produced on over a decade before his arrival. Does that suggest that Kelly has bottomed out or does it suggest that Kelly still has the Notre Dame program on the rise?
Now I can hear the comments section already, who cares about NFL draft picks we want wins! And that is a fair point, but that is a little bit of a chicken and egg situation as well. You need elite talent before you can beat elite teams and there is no way that anyone could argue Kelly hasn’t produced more elite than in six years than his three predecessors combined and that talent is still trending upward.
Many people fail to realize just how far this program had fallen when Brian Kelly took over. This was a program that simply didn’t have everything in place to compete with the football factories whose success fans aspire Notre Dame to replicate while not sacrificing the high academic standards Notre Dame upholds. Many will also say, but Stanford is playing at an elite level with high academic standards as well. Well, it took Jim Harbuagh four years to get Stanford to a major bowl before handing over the keys to David Shaw.
This is a program that is still trending upwards though. Even during the 12-0 regular season run in 2012 many pundits questioned Notre Dame’s talent. That wasn’t the case this year analysts continually praised the speed and talent on Notre Dame’s roster for the first time in years. Even during the Fiesta Bowl loss to Ohio State, Chris Speilman mentioned multiple times that 2015 was the best coaching job of Kelly’s career given all of the injuries his team faced.
Speaking of the Fiesta Bowl, while the outcome was no doubt disappointing Notre Dame wasn’t just simply overmatched like they were against Alabama three years ago. Against the Tide in 2012, Notre Dame didn’t look like they belonged on the same field. That wasn’t the case against the defending national champion Ohio State. Notre Dame had its moments and for a brief moment there in the second half looked like they might just turn the corner before they simply ran out of gas.
It just had a different feel than that loss to Alabama. By half time in the 2013 BCS Championship we knew it was over. At halftime of the Fiesta Bowl the Irish had just marched down the field and scored a touchdown before half time. Look at the performance of some other schools in bowl games and most aren’t questioning of they have maxed out. Has Mark Dantonio maxed out after getting shellacked by Alabama? Has Stoops hit his ceiling after falling to Clemson in the playoffs?
Consider this, Notre Dame’s three losses this season came against the current #1 team Clemson who is preparing for the national title game, #6 Stanford who just beat down #5 Iowa 45-16, and the #7 ranked Buckeyes. There’s a good chance that Notre Dame’s three losses will all have come against teams that will finish in the top 5 whose combined records will be at worst, 38-4.
Now, while Kelly hasn’t maxed out at Notre Dame yet, it is time for him to take the Irish to the next level. These close but no cigar games have to start falling Notre Dame’s way or we will be able to seriously question whether or not this is the best we can hope for under Kelly. Before suggesting that is the best we can hope for though, look at these stats and tell me if Kelly has leveled off or if this program is still trending upwards.
| Record | Bowl | Total All-Americans | Consensus All-Americans | Total Draft Picks | 1st Round Picks | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2013 | 9-4 | Pinstripe vs. Rutgers (Win) | 0 | 0 | 8 | 1 |
| 2014 | 8-5 | Music City vs. LSU (win) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| 2015 | 10-3 | Fiesta vs. Ohio State (loss) | 4 | 2 | 7* | 3* |
*Denotes a projection since not all players have declared yet.
And also consider this. Kelly made an interesting comment following the loss to Ohio State. “I had a similar process in my career earlier when I was in Division II. Took us about six years to win a playoff game,” Kelly said. “Then we won three national championships.”
Kelly was quick to temper expectations around Notre Dame being on the verge of winning three national championships, but at the same time, Kelly’s track record is only further proof that better days are still in line for Notre Dame and that his program at Notre Dame has anything but maxed out.
Brian Kelly’s play calling is very predictable. Period!!! Kelly also hired the defensive coordinator who absolutely is horrible!!! That pretty much makes for a so so team that will never win a championship let alone be in the playoffs. If your happy just making a bowl game every year Kelly’s your guy. But then again a lot of coaches can do that at Notre Dame. If you want to be in the playoffs every year go get a stud coach. I’m not happy being just a bowl team personally.
If this helps you get through the summer, awaiting next year’s collection of sleep walks, shit shows , beat downs and muggings, so be it. I’m sure Brian Kelly will enjoy his break, with respect to relaxing, on a day to day basis.
Sleep walk, shit show, beat down, mugging….
You forgot your personal favorite… ass-pounding.
Which is exactly what happened to your Rambling Wreck… tum.
Great input. Really.
David is back!!!! His hindsight vision isn’t 20/20 either. Sour grapes. Eat more carrots. Thanks.
NDS last four games: a sleepwalk against WF, a shitshow at Fenway, a beat down at Stanford, and a mugging by Urban Meyer.
No, ND hasn’t hit it’s ceiling with Brian Kelly. It did it with Manti T’eo. Brian was just the main beneficiary.
For those that want to accept mediocrity
This is real nd football
https://youtu.be/CcRNUFbwPiE
http://www.ndinsider.com/football/analysis-questions-about-notre-dame-defense-won-t-rest/article_bf252a0a-b40f-11e5-bc56-b3b6fb6725e7.html#.Vo7ik-otMHc.email
Bruce, sorry it took me while to respond but, here you go. It’s a great read you’ll like it.
rmmateo:
I would say ND’s showing against OSU was a little more respectable than against Alabama in 2013. They did manage to get within a touchdown twice I believe later in the game. Our offense was better this time around (though there were some miscues) and red zone offense was much improved this go around.
Defense is still very much an issue and the coaches must do a top to bottom re-evaluation and retool (at least if BVG wants to keep his job IMO).
Peter can you post that article?
Thanks
That nightmare seems to be put to bed? ND got boat raced last year. Way worse than ND could ever do to USC. Even in 2012 when ND went 12-0 and USC was in its worse shape in decades, it came down to the final play. They were no pushover this year either, even though they sucked.
An absolutely excellent article by Eric Hansen of The South Bend Tribune Jan 5 titled “questions on ND defense won’t rest”……a great read and insights
Your obviously new as you referred to bj as a writer. Simply classic!
There is no question that Brian Kelly has re-established ND as a top notch football school. For that alone he should be anointed “sainthood”. Here’s my only problem. The two biggest games of his ND career, Alabama & Ohio State were embarassment to everyone associated with ND football. Don’t tell me anyone is satisfied with getting to the big game. No way! Both games they were destroyed by their opponent.
Personally, I think the problem is on the defensive side of the ball, especially this year. If ND and Kelly want to be back in the elite company of the Alabama’s and Ohio State’s they need to win the elusive “big game”. Its seems each year Stanford bursts the bubble? Thats got to stop. It use to be USC, thank God that nightmare seems to be put to bed. As the writer before me mentioned losing 8 games over the last 2 years and giving up the points we did is not the way you get back on top! Winning 10 games on the surface looks great but when you look deeper changes need to be made. My suggestion……..Van Gorder has got to go! Go IRISH!!!!!
Kelly lost 8 games the last two years
Bvg gave up 690 points in 26 games
Bvg gave up 26.54 points per game in those two years
This is a total embarrassment to any true nd grad
Jack it’s simple great coaches find a way to win and hiring bvg just told me he doesn’t have the profile, the reputation or the ability to get a great DC. Can’t he use the mantle of ND to find a great one.? Depressed
Losing becomes a bad habit-Vince Lomardi
Excusing it becomes a sin-bj
Oops. Meaning shortening time line. JR year to liberal.
@ Damien. Another good point. Although it is still the governing body and has the final say for now. I also have read those threats. Their would be ramifications and push back though. Again the NCAA is virtually all the schools in all divisions. They are the “NCAA”. I would suspect if schools abandoned it would have to be all athletic programs. I have read where student has until JR. year to achieve a “C” average before becoming ineligible. True ? IDK. I would like to think that and admissions could be raised. Not to disenfranchise a young person. Still allowing for “at risk” students to have access and opportunity for growth. Raising that timeline at least, if true. Shouldn’t be out of the question. Also questioning how an athlete may lose their scholarship at some schools for not meeting coaches athletic performance expectations.. I am not comfortable with that. Grades and citizenship should be ultimate factors. Understanding even at ND, scholarships are on a yearly basis. I myself have witnessed an OVERALL raise in athletes efforts for education/citizenship over 4-5 decades. Late 60’s, (70’s &80’s got really bad) 90’s. Now is much better due to education & expectations. Parents included. I could be wrong! Yes, some bad apples always. The older they are the less tolerable ( pro’s also). Just think it’s time to raise the bar again. Balance and fairness.. Better for all who participate and even those that don’t. Thanks.
Shaz,
That’s certainly true too.
I think ND would do well to look at all these areas.
But ultimately they should not sacrifice academic standards or the discipline they expect of their players and students. But it’s possible there are things they can do within those standards to improve the team.
45yearfaithful,
I’m not sure how much power the NCAA ultimately wields over FBS football. Certainly some, but I’m not sure it’s enough to effect any real meaningful change. I read somewhere 2 or 3 years ago when a bunch of conferences went through alignment that there was the possibility Power 5 schools could leave the NCAA altogether (in effect becoming NFL football factories in reality). A nuclear option for Power 5 schools, sure, but the NCAA may be concerned if they push too hard that could be the result, not to mention “do-gooder” politicians are always mouthing off about anti-trust with sports if the NCAA wields too much power. ND, of course, would be on the short end of that stick since ND would not leave the NCAA.
Really good points all over this board. I contend LSU win was signature. USC any year just because of rivalry and their athletes. We are all less than satisfied with “close” against the top tier programs. I do believe that hurdle will be accomplished. Instead ND lowering its standards dramatically. Pressure needs to be applied to NCAA to raise and enforce theirs. Level the competition. The schools are actually the NCAA. So that could be done. Nearly 130 schools just in FBS. Many schools disadvantage. The $ involved should come with more expectations now (public $). Consumer $ money also. Private $ not so much and many programs disinterested. Higher caliber student and citizens will be the benefit. Certainly will flow down to pre college kids and parents with aspirations of competing in college athletics. Never happen? It wont unless forced, agreed. If the pie is being sliced. Make admissions and sustenance higher. These super conferences will lead to the perennials at the top with the “also rans” contending every few years when they have an older experienced team. Really like the idea of studying Stanford’s conditioning program. To many years of what seems to be excessive serious injuries. Thanks.
Ohio State is & was the best team. They underachieved all year until they lost to Michigan State.. They rolled Michigan & ND.. They should have been playing in the final 4.. You think that Stanford would have completed against Ohio State in the Rose Bowl?
What if Iowa played ND? I think Irish would have matched up better and odds were we probably win.. Not sure about blow out… This message board and others would be a different if the Irish won.
I thought going into that Selection Sunday, Irish did not match up against Ohio State, Alabama (as they are faster and more athletes) and Houston (due to our Defense).. I believe we could have scored against Houston, but Irish do not win in a shoot out.. I would think ND would have a drive or two that would fizzle..
Damian & Jack,
To me the issue isn’t the degree or type of punishment handed down.
The real issue is that it shouldn’t take 6 to 12 months to come to a decision on whether someone
fudged a term paper.
Damian,
I’m not saying that ND should become like Alabama or OSU, I would stop cheering for them because they sold their soul to win. I’m saying that the playing field is not level in College football, what one University will deem a minor offense another does not. That is why most coaches don’t want to deal with that challenge. I think the administration needs to rethink some of it’s policy as it pertains to student athletes, but not lower the standards . I think Kelly coming out this year and reevaluating how they handle academics is a key and how to better help the players.
Another issue not being brought up is the insane traveling ND does every year. No other college football team travels as much as the Irish. ND plays in multiple time zones and has six home games. Alabama didn’t travel out of the South and has 7 home games. I know the Shamrock series is technically a home game, but ND went from playing in Boston one week to Stanford the next. That is taxing on a players body and academic rigors. I am proud of what the program has accomplished to date, but I think ND needs to look at all areas and think dare I say outside the box in order to compete in todays college football market with the elite programs.
Jack
Some of the things you mentioned I think make ND what it is. I like the fact that I follow a school who remembers they are a University first. Too many schools have become NFL and NBA mini-factories and I’m glad ND is not one of them (though we have plenty of kids that still do go to the NFL).
That being said, I do believe there are some things worth looking at. Should they accept a limited number of Juco transfers that end up making the grade with the extra work? I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to that. Is their discipline over the top? Maybe instead of kicking a kid of the team for certain transgressions, can the punishment be reduced to maybe a few games, or half the season? Discipline is important but maybe ND can look at modifying the punishment depending on the crime. Academic requirements, though, are one area I would be wary of adjusting. That is one thing that makes ND what it is. But maybe they could look at things to try to help their athletes be more successful in the classroom, I’d be ok with that.
Damian, good comments. The other sports for ND still hold inspiration for an IRISH type of win. Glad to hear you take notice.
SFR, not sure where the others are. Duranko’s psycho rants probably pissed them off for good. I’m conflicted myself about coming back here since Frank is all about the ads.
Reality Check.
Facts, Stats, & Considerations.
(Per NCAA.com & ESPN)
ND Final Record: 10-3
ND Strength of Schedule: 7th
(Top 10: 1. Alabama, 2. Oklahoma, 3. Ole Miss, 4. LSU, 5. USC, 6. Arkansas, 7. ND, 8. Clemson, 9. Miss St, 10. Stanford. Other Notable: Thee… Ohio St. 26th.)
ND Injuries: 17 total front line players were lost for the season due to injury.
38 different players have started for Notre Dame this season.
(ND also Started 3rd string players at QB, Running Back, Tight End, Corner Back & Safety)
National Rankings:
Total Team Offense.
ND: 30th
Total Yards: 6063
Passing per game: 259
Rushing per Game: 207
Points per Game: 34
Team Defense.
ND: 37th
Total Yards allowed: 4349
Passing yards per Game: 196
Rushing yards per Game: 166
Points per Game: 22.4
Other Notable Defensive Rankings: Michigan St (46th), UCLA (58th), Stanford (71st) USC (94th)
Most Telling Stat.
Turnover Margin: (-) minus-6
ND Ranking: 102nd.
ND Fumbles Lost: 10
ND Fumbles Recovered: 5
ND Interceptions Thrown: 10
ND Interceptions Received: 6
Other Turnover margin Notables: Michigan St (+) Plus 14, Oklahoma (+) Plus 9, Alabama (+) Plus 9 Clemson (-) minus 1.
Bruce,
You need to get a clue, this isn’t 1965 anymore. You need a high profile coach to run your program. Why would a Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh or any other top ten coach want to come to ND when you get players suspended for stupid crap that happens in the dorms. You lose a player for an entire year over an academic scandal, which if what happened at ND would have happened at Alabama they may have been suspended one game and I’m not sure they would have been suspended at all. I am going to list five things that other programs do that ND doesn’t which makes it harder to coach, get players and run a program at ND.
1. No JC transfers. If you swing and miss a prospect other coaches can fill in holes with JC transfers, not a team full but one or two players to fill in a gap. Example of prep school JC transfer players
Mount Cody (Alabama), Shady McCoy (Pitt), couldn’t get into college took a year at a prep school
2. Recent article on no enforcement on positive drug tests for Pot. Certain schools won’t even suspend a kid for a game, ND would suspend them for an entire year.
3. Academic rigors: At other schools most players arent’ worried about their education they are worried about getting to the NFL.
Now these are three big things that impact ND. Stanford has the same restrictions and are in a conference where they are able to compete, but aren’t going to be able to compete every year for a NC. If you are going to go up against the big boys you better get the Jimmies and Joes or you will get drubbed all the time. Every year ND has the potential recruiting targets cut in half due to academic requirements. If you look at the last time ND was great three players wouldn’t have made it into ND now. Two of those players were huge parts of the 88 NC team, Rice and Zorich, both got degrees and Zorich works at the University.
I think with the injuries this year BK did an excellent job coaching, however he needs to take a hard look at his defense and figure out what he needs to do to make them better. He also needs to take a hard look at his strength and conditioning program and try and figure out why he has so many knee injuries and how can he better condition players or something to prevent the broken bones and other issues.
C-dog,
I am one of those fans that also follow ND basketball, and if I see ND playing some other sport on one of the sports channels I’ll stop and watch. I love ice hockey so if I see ND playing I’ll watch. Hell, I got excited when ND won the NC in men’s soccer 2 or 3 years ago, I thought it was something. And last years men’s BB team was one play from knocking off Kentucky (I thought they had a real chances of pulling off their first NC in men’s BB–one play, God that still kills me).
Women’s BB is frustrating though. McGraw has done a great job with the team but it’s gotten to the point no one pays attention because everyone knows UConn is going to win the NC. They have more than a dynasty going on there, UConn basically owns women’s BB. Unfortunately I think that hurts women’s BB because no one pays much attention. Of course that’s not UConn’s fault, some other team is going to have to knock them off. ND has had some luck taking them down in past years, but lately not even ND has been able to knock them off.
But I still want that elusive 12th NC in football. While I agree BK is not there yet, I think we are slowly moving in the right direction. I also agree BVG needs to do some work with the defense. I’m not in the fire BVG camp unless he flat out refuses to make adjustments. It was only his 2nd year and I do like his intensity. I think there’s still potential there if he adjusts or even just simplifies the defense. They did answer the triple option question, which was something that had vexed ND for years. And we shut out the Meatchickens (8, or is it 9 I lost count). 31-0, you know that will never get old. That gives me reason to hope BVG can be a good coach.
All right, Sean, that sounds more positive. I have my questions about the defensive coaching too. It seems strange that the RB’s and QB’s could make so much progress with Denson and Sanford coming aboard and the backfield would be lagging with Lyght coming aboard. And yes, the tackling is (sometimes, and too often) terrible, especially with the CB’s and safeties. I’ve watched BVG on the Showtime series, and some of his comments seem pretty divisive. Makes me wonder whether he’s the kind of guy who tears people down a lot. I also get your point about S&C now that you explain it. We do need to look into whether we’re doing something to make injuries more prevalent.
However, I don’t agree with you about the oline. AFAIC, OSU’s dline is one of the best, even without Washington and Bosa, and they did pretty well, did great for the rest of the year too. Furthermore, it may be that Kelly doesn’t prepare his teams well but I don’t see much correlation in general between what announcers say and what’s actually the case when it comes to statements like that one. I’ll have to see what happens when we manage to stay healthy. Having to change starters from week to week makes it tough to prepare no matter how good you are at it.
@RM73: yes, and Lynch and Kiel transferred out as well. I’m working on the idea of how well five-star players play regardless of where.
No defense gave up 30 a game in 2014 24 in 2015
It’s s sick joke
http://www.todaysu.com/fbs-independents/notre-dame-fighting-irish/defense-a-top-concern-for-notre-dame-heading-to-2016/
Bob,thanks for backing up many of my points. Kelly did a great job this year, but,
Our o line struggles against Ohio State’s second and third stringers.
It took him 5 years to pay attention to special teams
13 games into the seasons,there no adjustments on defense. We made the same mistakes all year. -i.e. Stanford’s final.drve.
It is fair to ask if we need to look at our strength and conditioning program based on the number of injuries we have.
Our tackling is terrible. .
He does not prepare a team well. How many times during the year did announcers say, “the Irish always play down to their competition.”
I am not a fanatic, and the landscape has changed. We have great athletes and young men, with a little better coaching and attention to detail, we can be champions.
Whoops..
“Hear” instead of “Here”.. Ugh.. from prior post..
“Here this all the time on many different sites and it is not a shot to anyone on here”
They say.. do not drink and drive.. Same with writing..
Here this all the time on many different sites and it is not a shot to anyone on here…
If Meyer, Saban or Haurbaugh were here. They are not..
Saban would NEVER be here. He has TREMENDOUS advantages with SEC rules with more the so call gray shirting, southern base recruiting, SEC network and lower admin standards for the so call student athlete. When would he have left? Do you think he would have left Alabama to come here?
Jimbo chose his roots after being in the NFL and timing was never there for Irish…
“Saint” Meyer might have been the option, but he could not get what he wanted and remember, he did burn out with health issues at Florida. That was not too long after Kelly was hired. If you recall, he left that program in a shamble and walked away. They are still pissed at him down there.. A ton of arrest, players dismissed and a program that has been trying to get out of his wake 5 years later (& 2 coaches)
I am not saying Kelly is the second common of Rockne or even in modern day with Holtz. Many did not want the challenge to come here to coach.. A few tweaks are needed (especially with the complicated D) and keep recruiting players that will improve this program. Need more speed..
Love team 127..They overachieved with so many injuries.. Go Irish…
I thought Kelly did an outstanding job this year, juggling all the injuries and staying competitive. BVG may have to simplify his scheme a little. It’s a pro style one that maybe college students don’t have enough practice time to learn.
The one negative or slight hit on the coaching staff is that they don’t seem to be able to make adjustments during the game..Really evident during the clemson game.
Considering the injuries, I think the season was successful. I think with the defensive scheme being so complicated that the injuries really take a toll there as the backups don’t get as much quality practice like the starters.
I hear two things on here that amaze me. Nd can never win a nc because we are too moral and have high academic standards. Bs. Brian Kelly just needs more time. Bs. Fire bvg. Get a great DC coach, we got pushed all over the field this year by everybody, even temple. And practice on a grass field. Too much strain on these players ligaments and tendons playing on concrete. If Meyer or hsrbaugh or saban we’re here. You would hear what I heard we’re number 1. 10-3 is bs.
To C-Dog’s point,
ND isn’t what it was under Holtz. I don’t think it will ever reach that pinnacle. I think BK has done the best out of coaches after Holtz, but ND isn’t what ND was and to market as such is not correct. ND is going to be a team that once ever 10 years will be good and even be in the conversation about being a playoff team. The sad reality is when they play a true top 4 team they get beat and usually beat bad. In order to win at the Division I level you need top tier talent with an elite coach. No elite coach is coming to ND due to the restrictions that are put on recruiting and the tough rules. Just an example would be this week, with the sending home of Redfield and Tillery. If Elliot would have been at ND he would have been suspended for this game. Coaches don’t want to deal with that and that is why they would steer clear of ND. Do I want ND to change their standards, NO, but that is the world we live in today.
Meyer would not want a kid suspended for an entire year because he got pinched in a drug test for Pot. That is a half suspension at other schools and maybe not even that. It’s the reality of college sports, most schools rent these players to make money off of them. They don’t care about whether they graduate or become contributing members of society. They care about what they can do for them now and what they can do for the University. I don’t want to see ND go down that road, I’ll take a 10-3 season with players getting degrees and staying out of trouble.
C-Dog, finally back!
Missed you, brother.
Happy New Year to you and yours!
BTW: Where’s JC?
And no one should accuse anyone who thinks ND has
Plateau’d with wanting Kelly fired. Most of us who were around one or more Champipnship seasons and have seen the slide since 1995 are more realistic. We just don’t want false hype and the marketing of the former Notre Dame. It is what it is, a top academic school with a good football team.
If you want to really get psyched up about ND sports watch the lacrosse team, the women’s basketball team, both soccer teams and a few other amazing individual athletes.
Well Frank, the optimism will help you sell ads on your blog site. And Duranko’s fantasy about some real connection to the real Pete Duranko is entertaining if not a little psychological. But make no mistake ND football is not the ND football of old. That lagacy faded in the mid to late 1990s.
Kelly is a good coach who will win most of his games. But he hasn’t captured any magic that used to be known as “the Luck of the Irish”. They lose the games they are supposed to lose and win almost all the games they are supposed to win. It’s a good group of players and internally you can tell they are family to each other.
But it’s a marketing ploy to sell ads to keep people hoping for the ND of old. Anyone under 40 has no experience of that only stories from old timers.
More like underated. Especially for div11. It’s harder to sustain a program than it is to build one. Which now he has built numerous solid programs and sustained them. Which also is where he has ND now. Sustainable. Proof of improvement of depth of players. Solid improvement of program as a whole. Reminder. 2012 team was very thin on both “O”& “D” lines. Virtually no replacements. Down to tightends and d-ends /Olb for interior back ups. Sliding tackles/ d-ends inside. 2 young QB’s. Compare teams now. Not firing coaches but replacing them yearly is still revamping. Especially when he was looking to adapt/change Thanks.
MY GOD!!! Chicken Little has arrived! “The sky is falling!” Wrong. “The sky has fallen!” Fire Kelly, fire BVG, fire Booker, fire Swarbrick, tear up the field, and bring back grass. What do you people want?
Some on here need to stop and smell the roses. Look at what Team 127 accomplished. Look at the injuries this year. And not just the “stars”. I wonder how many 1s and 2s on the depth chart went down. Thirty five different starters! How the hell can you get consistency when you have that many starters? Especially when you’re playing a lot of threes. And still they managed to win 10 games, and were in the three they lost. Celebrate Team 127! The foundation that was built this year will bear fruit.
Are there problems? Is BVGs defense too complicated for student athletes? Does Kelly deserve to be canned? Yes, maybe, no. What is the cause of this rash of injuries? All good questions. This team is so much further along than the 2012 team, and light years ahead of where it was when Kelly took over. He’s improved this team in immeasurably, and the best is yet to come.
Go Irish. Welcome to the newest recruits, welcome back to the injured. Team 128 will build on what has come before.
I agree, to a point, with where you’re going here. Maybe our best days are still ahead of us.
HOWEVER…
1. There is absolutely no excuse for the defense to have been as weak as it was all year with amount of talent we had this year. We gave up far too many big plays. Even Jaylon Smith was out of position and missing tackles frequently. Kievarie Russell was way overrated, but most likely due to missing last year. We had some big bodies on the D line, most of them were veterans and most were highly rated coming out of H.S. But we have virtually no pass rush most of the year. I like VanGorder’s intensity, but he needs a lot of work on scheme before next year. And on top of that, since we lose so many to injury anyway, we might as well practice harder- more goal line situations with 1 vs 1, more tackling drills, more Oklahoma drills. If D could stop somebody we would have been undefeated. If we could tackle in space we would have given up half as many of those big plays.
2. Injuries- WTF??? Since the Under Armour deal we have seen an astronomical increase in ankle and knee injuries. We lost a key player in nearly every game this year, most of them season ending injuries. It’s not because of the turf because our practice field had been turf for a long time. Maybe somebody needs to tak a look at the way these cleats are grabbing? Or maybe Longo needs to address knees and ankles in his strength program. One way or another we cannot afford to have that many walking wounded.
3. Player retention- I don’t know what Kelly’s deal is with all these blue chip recruits but I’m really tired of getting all excited for the super recruits that signed their NOLA with us and then ended up somewhere else playing ball before they ever arrived on campus. I’m tired of seeing players who should end up being key contributors transferring somewhere else after one year on campus. Why can’t Kelly and the staff do a better job holding on to these kids? I understand some of them can’t make the grades and they will fall out, but Saban has no issues signing a blue chip player – as a walk on no less (due to over signing)- and making him sit a year or two and wait his turn. They don’t leave. Plus for us, at least they have the expectation they will get in at some point after game 2 or 3 anyway because the starter ahead of them just blew out a knee and is done for the year!
4. ND players need more emotion and more intensity. They come out flat as hell to start every game. No sense of urgency until they are down by two scores. Eventually that bites you in ass when you play elite teams. CBK and BVG both need to do a better job of game planning and scheming. It’s nice to be able to adjust at halftime and have a big 2nd half, but sometimes that’s too little too late. And we need to get that killer instinct beaten into us. Gotta learn to keep the pedal down and close out games.
5. Offensive line- when you have an O line like we had this year, you should be able to run over some people. There should be no reason you can’t put the ball down anywhere on the field, put your hand in the dirt, get your pads on somebody and push them all over the field. At times, Kelly tries too hard to do all the Oregon-esque play calling. Stop finessing it and run them over! No excuse for us to have the kind of trouble we had with scoring in the red zone.
So, anyways, Kelly has a LONG way to go before I consider him elite. We should not need a last minute heroic pass to beat Virginia. We should not have spotted Clemson 14 to start the game and then turned the ball over 5 times. We should have beaten Pitt by 20. We should have had Temple handled by half time. BVG should have had his guys in position to keep Stanfod out of field goal range with :28 left on the clock after we went ahead. Our 2nd and 3rd team players (6 years in) should be good enough to play at the same level as our starters. Bama does it. Michigan State does it. Ohio State does it. Lastly, ND needs to stop trying to live in the past. It’s time to stop celebrating a close loss to Clemson or “The Bush Push” as if they were a storied victory. We LOST! It’s time to go back to work and get better across the board so, next time WE come out on top of the close one. Come on, Kelly. Make them MEAN and hungry.
Frank, can’t disagree with you more! your statement of brian kelly revamped his offensive staff? since brian kelly has been at ND, coaches have left for either head coaching jobs, or lateral moves! he hasn’t fired anyone and has kept a couple are just inept (hello BVG and scott booker). when the best victory on the schedule is navy, then u have issues. for everyone who makes the argument that ND is two plays away from being 12-0, u have to make the argument that they are also 3 plays away from being 7-5. brian kelly is the definition of overrated. padded his record in div II, MAC, and the joke of big east football.
If ND plans on making a run to the playoffs the defense has got to get better. It needs to get key stops. When the score was 21-28, if ND doesn’t give up that next drive TD and puts some points on the board it’s a different game. The D couldn’t stop Stanford’s last drive which cost them their second loss. Not only was the secondary weak, the front seven was not dominant. The LB’s were poor tackling and not in position. ND stunted or shifted out of where plays were going. This needs to stop.
I agree with you that BK was able to address offensive issues and the offense was much better this year. He needs to address the defense and bring them to the level of the offense. I don’t want to hear that players that have been in this system for three years don’t understand it. If that is the case it’s a coaching issue.
Unbelievable comments posted. Some make me sick. Wake Up!!
Kelly worked a miracle this year.. I understand everyone’s frustration… I think it is misdirected.
I do think our defense system is too complicated for college kids restricted practice hours.
POINT TO PONDER:
After Spring practice, if I told you we were playing a New Years Day Game against Ohio State with Kizer as our QB and our starting RB was not even in school then (& with essentially no backup for the game with a cameo by Williams), No PROSISE, No Russell, No Redfield (regardless of his up & down play), No Tillery (as he was the Spring talk about player) and I told you ND would have all the injuries they had in the 2015 Season; you would have thought they added a new bowl game that took the worst team against the defending champs..
Be proud of how they essentially overachieved with all those setbacks & obstacles to overcome this season. It was a fun year. Sure, it was disappointing as how things evolve throughout the season and losing 2 close games and of course running into a buzz saw with Ohio State.
When Jones, Folston & Zaire went down over a course of 3 to 4 week time frame, I thought we were going to watch them play in a third tier bowl game.
I’m with Frank on this one, which is no surprise. I’ve been a big BK supporter. All the pundits say what an amazing job BK has done at ND. What do we know that they don’t? Even Mark May, of all people, has praised ND’s success this season. These aren’t people who are in ND’s corner traditionally.
I’ve been saying since 2012 that I had not realized the damage that was done to ND football under D/W/W. It has taken Swarbick and Kelly years to reverse that trend and make some necessary changes. And the recruiting has continued to improve under BK, a key element to any future NC’s, and yes recruits do look at who gets drafted to the NFL.
That doesn’t mean ND doesn’t need to make changes. Our defense needs an overhaul. I’m not ready to see BVG fired, but he’s going to have to adapt, our defense is wildly inconsistent, even accounting for injuries. As Frank noted, BK has shown a willingness to adjust and make changes. BVG will need to do the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with a high pressure defense heavy on blitzing, as BVG prefers, but his schemes need to be adapted, and since ND plays vastly different teams from week to week, adaptations may need to be made week to week in some cases.
One other thing ND as a whole should analyze is injuries. Are there things they can do better to limit injuries. Injuries happen in football. But after 2 years of significant injuries, it is something they should look at.
Also, despite my support of BK, I’m not yet ready to crown him an elite coach. I do need to see a NC win for that to happen. But I do believe ND is trending upward.
But I find it amusing there are some fans out there that are ready to fire BK (not every critic of BK wants him fired, just to clarify). Anyone with any football sense would see this as a huge mistake by ND, and if they were to do something so careless, no elite coach would want to take a chance at coaching at ND. They would see the job as a no win situation. Most of the CFB world sees BK’s tenure as much improved and not done moving up.
I won’t indict BK (nor BVG) until I see him play with a full deck at least once. He’s endured some dramatic offseasons with deaths, suspensions and transfers. The injury bug has been unkind the past 2 seasons. This season is particularly hard to swallow as on paper the team looked primed for a run. Jarron Jones, 6’5 at 320 pounds was the killer. His size is irreplaceable. Him healthy along the defensive front with Sheldon and Isaac with Jerry and Daniel as backups would have totally changed the look of this defense. The middle of this defense was soft all year and Jarron’s absence is mostly why. I don’t think the ceiling has been reached because the team ND/BK thought they would field has NEVER taken the field. Maybe 2016 we see a team with it’s full compliment of players at the coach’s disposal.
Ohio State DEFINITELY abused our O line. They were too physical despite missing 3 starters once Bosa was ejected.
Bob, Eddie Vanderdoes decommitted from ND and plays for UCLA.
According to 247sports, Notre Dame has had nine five-star recruits in the last 10 years: Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Dayne Crist, Manti Te’o, Aaron Lynch, Ishaq Williams, Gunner Kiel, Jaylon Smith and Max Redfield. According to rivals, we have had 15: James Aldridge, Sam Young, Clausen, Crist, Floyd, Kyle Rudolph, Te’o, Williams, Stephon Tuitt, Kiel, Eddie Vanderdoes, Smith, Greg Bryant, Redfield and Quenton Nelson.
Of all those (ignoring transfers), Aldridge, Crist, Williams, Bryant and (maybe) Redfield are unqualified busts. Floyd, Te’o, Young, Tuitt, Lynch and Rudolph are doing well in the pros. Clausen did well at ND but isn’t starting caliber in the pros. Kiel is doing ok at Cincinnati, but doesn’t look like he’ll be a starter in the pros. Vanderdoes, Smith and Nelson look like they will be.
So, it looks like five-stars are 50-50, at least as far as Notre Dame is concerned. Either they’re the stars on the team or not good enough to start. They aren’t usually the “solid contributors” who start most of the games but don’t stand out as stars.
@Sean: My, my, Sean, that ol’ axe is getting pretty sharp! This is your second similar post. So, back at you this time. I agree that we didn’t have a signature win, and I looked over our stats for the last fifty years and find that our turnovers forced was indeed lower than any that I found in the last fifty years. However, more than 40 of those teams that had more forced turnovers had worse records as well. I also find that the defense gave up more than the usual number of big plays, and didn’t have too many sacks. And we still went 10-3, the second-best record in 20 years.
Furthermore, I do not find that the offensive line got “beat up.” Statistically, we had one of the best o-lines in the game. The d-line was pretty good, too. The secondary was pretty weak, which is why we gave up big plays.
I’ll invite YOU to explain our strength and conditioning program, since you’re the one fussing about it. Looks fine to me, unless you’re blaming it for all our injuries.
As for the special teams, they were pretty weak for some time, and this year they were much improved. As such, it would seem that the coach did something to correct this obvious flaw.
Maybe you are the one who needs to explain his position, since it seems not to be backed up by the obvious stats.
Kelly still has shown me nothing in ability to get a team to rise… All I ever see is a coach who never seems to actually gameplan. He rolls into game and wings it.
In the 2014 draft (which you have as part of the 2013 season) there were eight players, but Zack Martin went in the first round.
Good catch! Thanks!
Comparing past coachig legends to the kelly era is apples to oranges. First off scholarships limited to 85 vs. over 100 players. Top teams could stockpile players. Yes i lose patience with kelly. But he is fielding better teams every yr. hope he stays a new coach, if anybody wants the job, will be tough to find. Im hoping former boise state. Oc/qb coach is mentored for the position. In house is the way to continue. 50 yr fan. Go irish. Ps. Fuller and prosise stupid not to declare after seeing jaylon go down.
I ask, should Kelly leave, WHAT TOP NOTCH COACH is out there ready to be hired and to take ND to the promised land of a NC? There isn’t one I am aware of right now unless I am wrong. There does seem to be the pattern that previous coaches at ND that won NC’s did it first in their 3rd year at the helm. If Kelly were to go 3 straight NC’s in 2016,17,& 18, well, WE ALL will be singing a different tune, now won’t we?
I’m with you Frank. What school in the country plays 3 teams in the top 5? 5 top 25? Which it probably how it will shake out. OU & Iowa probably didn’t belong. Ohio state in 2014 did belong and barely made it in. Controlled Bama. Bama got a late score. Otherwise same game as ND. Yet all these fans have their faces in Bama’s butt cheeks. State was letting ND hang around. Never sealed game until late. Tough schedule this year. Top defenses 2nd half. This program will have its day. These fans can’t comprehend 130 schools/programs. Slicing of the pie. How do you expect them to understand how Far ND program has come and close it is? Envision where it will be. Yet no one is concerned about the stars leaving. Depth, Athletic ability and speed. Kelly will adjust BVG and defense. I felt mostly scheme. Shut down option teams with added studying emphasis. Immediate gratification is all “Fanatics” can see. Not where the program was. Certainly not where it’s heading. BTW, star ratings are purely subjective. How have most those 5 star student athletes panned out for ND? Good days ahead. Appreciate it. Thanks.
First of all fire swarbrick and bring back the grass
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE84002Q20120501
BTW, Frank: “Big Game (?)” Bob Stoops hit his ceiling years ago. Are you serious using Stoops to support your argument?!
BK had a good year but BVG prevented him from having a great year.BK will never get.into the playoffas long as BVG is his DC,
I sure hope your faith in BK is right, Frank. However. Your evidence is pretty slim. Are you seriously basing a good part of your argument about BK’s career trajectory at ND based on what he did in DII?! That’s a whole different beast there. Hopefully BK grows and takes ND to the top. It seems, however, that past legends didn’t need six years to deliver a title to S. Bend.
Great stuff as usual Frank
Why would fuller and prosise stay unless they thought they could’ve been on a national championship team and this will
Never happen with bvg and bk.so sad to see our best go early.
Sean- What about USC, Oklahoma, Standford, MSU and Michiigan wins in 2012? Is it only a signature game if they lose? You’re talking about a team with 20 injured key players. 3rd string QB and a 3rd string RB converted from WR converted from safety. That kind of production doesn’t happen by accident. Look at the big picture.
Ummm, how has Kelly done nothing to correct the problems? He completely revamped the offensive staff last year and look at the results? He changed his pass happy offense to a run oriented attack and look at the results? He has work to do on the defensive side of the ball, but nothing he has done in 6 years suggests that Kelly is going to stand pat and not address the problems that still face this team.
Kelly has done good, Yet it’s one thing that he seems to struggle with and that is having his team ready to play from the get go In a big game. Look at the loses against Clemson and OSU, they fell behind early 14-0 and 10-0…this has haunted Kelly since he has been there. He needs to either change his approach to big games or something. By the time they get going they are too far behind.
Touching.
Name a signature win,
Explain how we got beat up on the o line and d line.
Explain our poor special teams.
Explain a defense that gives up big plays, has created the fewest turnovers in fifty years, had few sacks,
Explain our strength and conditioning program.
Explain a coach who does nothing to correct these obvious flaws. I am not a fanatic. But injuries do not explain these problems.
Thanks