Tai-ler Jones, one of the nation’s elite wide receivers, surprised a lot of people when committed to Stanford on Thursday. Jones, son of former Notre Dame linebacker Andre Jones, picked Stanford over a host of traditional power house programs.
The fact that Stanford pulled this one off is really remarkable to me. Stanford can barely attract people to their games other than when the opponent brings a big crowd, their coach – Jim Harbaugh – reportedly interviewed for an NFL head coaching position this past off-season, and Stanford doesn’t allow early enrollments – something Jones reportedly wants to do. Despite my disdain for Harbaugh, I have to give him some credit for being able to pull a Notre Dame legacy out of the south to Stanford.
AccessNorthGA.com reported that academics were a major part of Jones’s decision.
“They just made me feel at home,” said Jones, who also made the choice due to Stanford’s academic appeal.
“With a degree from there I’ve got guaranteed success for life,” noted Jones, who plans to major in broadcast journalism.
Weis and staff have to be asking themselves how they lost out on Jones. It would have been one thing to lose out on Jones to a program like Goergia or Ohio State, but Stanford?
John Haynesworth posted on NDNation that Jones told BGI’s Jason Sapp that he still plans on taking his official visits despite the commitment to Stanford so this race could be far from over. Combine Jones taking official visits with Stanford’s lack of early enrollment and it seems like there is a good chance that Weis and Notre Dame can get back in the race. A blowout of Stanford on Thanksgiving weekend in front of a lot of Notre Dame fans in Palo Alto certainly couldn’t hurt.
Luckily for Notre Dame, there are plenty of other top notch wide receivers still strongly considering the Irish including Corey Cooper, Justin McCay, and Kyle Prater who should all be on campus this weekend for the Blue/Gold game.
LMAO this whole thread became an academic debate, blind from the fact Tai*ler Jones is a soft verbal to Standford and will continue to take visits to other colleges. In Jones eyes Jim is going to continue selling Standford to him.
Yo, C-Dog. I dig your style. The pimple and treebeard stuff is classic. But don’t say “no one here is saying ND is better than Stanford” Because I sure the hell am.
It’s like a Mercedes and a Rolls Royce. Both are truley fine automobiles, but one is clearly better in every possiable way. The money never lies.
@Numbers,
Where have you been and why are so many people in California so ignorant of the rest of the country.
ND has easily matches Stanford on BRAND. First of all, if you’ve ever seen the research facilities at ND, you’ll know that ND has among the best. Other schools use ND’s wind tunnel, as do corporations. Come look at the Music facilities, or come watch the New York Philharmonic who come each year to play. Come to the Law school which is among the best. Come and see how the accounting and other business departments are among the top 5. Oh, and the premed program is among the top 10 in placements into medical school.
No one here is saying ND is better than Stanford, but if you claim that Stanford is better academically than ND, you yourself are just plain ignorant. Sorry, but the data of the last ten years and what is going on today at ND supports that it is among the VERY best universities academically. You just need to learn more about the rest of America. But so do most Californians. sorry Numbers you lose this argument. Please go pop a pimple and bug a fellow treebeard.
Actually, the stereotype of Stanford being loaded with socially inept nerds is just that. The soft skills of most Stanford graduates are impressive – and while there are some at the top end of the class that lack those, many of those students don’t endeavor to pursue careers that require such talents. But, I can’t back this up with any numbers — just as you likely can’t make the criticism based on any.
Each school has its own place and fills it quite well. For a football player who endeavors to be in the NFL, the choice should probably be the school that is more devoted to that player’s football success (ND). But, as we’ve discussed, and particularly because of Weis’ standing w/ his administration, I think kids will be swayed. And don’t underestimate the attraction of being around “excellence” in other fields. Fields medal winners, Nobel Laureates, the Google, Yahoo, and Cisco founders, former world leaders etc … there’s a special feeling when you know you’re surrounded by such people. I know ND has them, but it’s not quite to the same magnitude.
And it’s like I said – it’s not about what we argue here. Stanford has the better Academic BRAND – just as ND has the better Football BRAND. Harvard has the best Academic BRAND.
BTW: I consider Cal and UCLA to be better brands in _BOTH_ than ND. And I do believe in and appreciate the benefits of theology as part of my academic life.
I love this. Here we have a debate because some Stanford people are on a ND Blogsite. Why, because for all their potestations they have validated that ND is superior.
@Stanford Tree and CWatemyhomework you’ve shown us that ND, it’s alums, students, and fans are superior to YOU. Stanford has a fine student body and alum base. But not you two. You wouldn’t be on this site if you truly were superior. Your need to prove it only proves that you know ND has one of the top endowments in the country, it’s academics rank on par with the Ivy Leagues. And it’s commitment to sports as part of the greek ideal of balance are among the best in the country. Harbaugh will have his day and move on, your band will continue to be black balled for being bigoted against Catholics, you’ll enjoy the trees and feel content to talk about how great you are while on the unemployement line. Enjoy>
Numbers,
Let’s take a real simplistic approach:
In the real world, you’re a Stanford football ticket salesman and I’m a Notre Dame football ticket salesman. And we both get a generous 5% commission on gross football ticket sales.
Now let’s be honest, who has the better product when ND is on National TV every weekend with the stadium more than full. Is there a strong indication I’ll be flying to games in a private jet and you will be driving to them?
As to top end students, it is well known, so called top end students are not always the best performers in the market place because of their generally weak interpersonal skills. This is why most talented sales people generally don’t make good managers, however, they can earn as much as or more than management, including most CEO’s….without the need to be a 100 hr a week desk jockey, meeting freak and live longer. Do the math.
Academically, are the degrees relevant in this example? People need to remember, degrees will open the door, but it’s all about performance after that. A Stanford claimed $12,000.OO or more starting salary advantage can be a short lived event with poor perfomance. In today’s market, an alarming fact is; management is not relevant without SALES. I think GM now understands this.
In the matter of Jones, I still say it is a simple case of not wanting to blaze his dad’s trail and indeed, it was his second choice due to that fact. There is no way he grew-up as a Stanford fan in the Jones family. We all know better. Was it a bad choice? No, just a disappointing choice to us because of his dad’s legacy here at ND. It is just that simple.
Ok – so I’m going to go by the rankings and see how the two teams compare. I’m going to use top 25 rankings because, well, outside o the top 25 is just irrelevant. In football and in academics, those schools are just trying to scratch their way into the “relevant” bunch … just as the relevant ones are trying to scratch their way into the top 5 “elite” bunch. Anyway … as we all know stats can say anything, but I’d like to see how the two teams stack up in football and academics over the past 10 years (this hurts ND obviously because of ND’s success is more prolonged, while Stanford’s Academic success is more recent, but it plays to the fact that the 1950s are less relevant today than are the 1990s and the 2000s)…
Football Rankings:
UR = Unranked
Polls:
2008 – Stanford UR/UR – ND UR/UR
2007 – Stanford UR/UR – ND UR/UR
2006 – Stanford UR/UR – ND 17/19
2005 – Stanford UR/UR – ND 9/11
2004 – Stanford UR/UR – ND UR/UR
2003 – Stanford UR/UR – ND UR/UR
2002 – Stanford UR/UR – ND 17/17
The results: Stanford has no only not been ranked in the 7 year sample, it has never beaten Notre Dame. I would say this sample goes decidedly in favor of ND. If you factor in ND’s performance in this period relative to it’s historical norm, the edge might even be more pronounced, but let’s put it this way:
Notre Dame Football: Great (but not Elite in this sample)
Stanford Football: Irrelevant
2009 – Stanford 4 (94), Notre Dame 19 (79)
2008 – … actually I’m going to stop there. We know what we’re going to get. Notre Dame will range anywhere from 30 to 19 (with the best result being most recent – a good sign) in these rankings. Stanford is going to be top 5 to top 7 with an occasionally #1 or #2 overall. Harvard Yale Princeton Stanford – these are the biggest brand names in education right now.
Edge: Stanford
Result: Here’s the thing. Notre Dame’s on field results, financial commitment, and existing talent base are by almost all measures better than Stanford’s right now. From a football only perspective, this is a no brainer. The ONLY big question mark that one could throw at Notre Dame is the security of Charlie Weis. A bad season and he’s gone — and coaching turnover is bad for a kid. On Stanford’s side, Harbaugh is a prized commodity, so if he can sell to a kid that he’s staying, that could be a _football_ angle that could be played in the recruiting field.
For Academics, I’d say for most athletes the institutions are similar. For top end students – no way, but for most Athletes and most people – yes. In fact, you could say that Notre Dame’s focus on developing a complete person – or a “man for others” might give it an edge in the educational realm (I wouldn’t argue with that actually). However, if an athlete has political aspirations, the presence of people like William Perry, Condi Rice, and others (whether you agree with their politics or not – they are good resources) makes Stanford unique in that sense. For a technology career – engineering – Stanford’s brand is again, unique. Notre Dame is a phenomenal academic institution with many advantages that make it unique – Stanford however, in addition to this, offers a brand of academic excellence that is difficult to argue with.
So the result? He was neither right nor wrong to make this choice. I would hesitate btw before claiming that a Notre Dame alumnus would necessarily push his kid towards ND. Ted Miller recently cited a survey among journalists and former athletes that showed that they believed as a whole that Stanford was where they would send their children for college sports. I understand that Notre Dame football engenders a unique form of loyalty among its alumni, players, and fans – but even that loyalty is subject to broken ties.
Hell, the man who made our basketball program into what it is today currently coaches our greatest rival…
Stanford football Legacy?
One of the Greatest college football plays took place in Stanford Stadium in a game 2yrs ago between ND and Stanford. Jimmy Clausen launched a long bomb deep over the middle near the back of the endzone and a spectacular diving grab was made by David Grimes. Of course we were at Stanford stadium with pack 10 officials who ruled it an incomplete pass. So it went “upstairs” for further review. If these Stanford people are supposed to be so far ahead academiclly why did they delibrity botch this catch and think nobody would notice? I think they’er all a bunch of spoiled idiots. Even with that, they still lost the game. If ND tried something like that it would have been plastered all over ESPN for weeks. Screw them.
Now here’s a Stanford football legacy worth mentioning:
1924 National Championship ND 27 Stanford 10 and in 1926 Alabama and Stanford tied 7-7. Stanford has never won a title outright.
Stanford in the same breath as: Yale, Harvard and Princeton who have multiple titles? Oh yeah, only when it comes to academics. In football your measuring stick is shattered, bush league at best.
I can’t imagine why you’re having trouble securing an exclusive TV network contract,(you guys are broadcast specialists aren’t you?)filling the stands every year, everywhere and becoming a house-hold-name nationally and internationally. *Seems* like track is your best bet.
No wonder you Stanford guys are hypersensitive get a life.
ND still fills the stands every weekend, even though the football team has been mediocre, overall, for a good 10 years. They still regularly come up as one of (if not the) most popular college football programs in the country. We’re not the ones knocking down our stadium because we can’t fill seats. Perhaps that has something to do with being considered “special”.
I’ll willingly concede the academics point. Not many schools match Stanford’s, and I don’t see that as something to be ashamed of. Notre Dame still has an excellent academic reputation. But don’t try and pretend there isn’t a massive following out there for Notre Dame football, in spite of poor recent performance.
Double Amen brother Irish Hawk, elegant.
@Irish Hawk,
Thank you Thank you Thank you!
You hit the nail right on the head.
I have a friend who comes from the Bay Area, and is a lawyer in San Francisco. He transferred from a california university to Notre Dame. Instead of $300 in-state tuition, his parents supported his attending Notre Dame. It took the effort of his parents and two other sets of aunts/uncles to support his education at Notre Dame, but it was that important to them.
It’s easy to hate Notre Dame if you hate minorities achieving and coming on par with what was once elite.
The same people who used to rip on me for being Catholic in my home state of PA, also in the same breadth ripped on blacks, Greeks, and Hispanics. I’ll be proud to in that company.
Fighting Irish is code for achieving minorities. That’s scary to some like CWatemyhomework.
CWatemyhomework,
About that TV contract….if NBC didn’t renew FOX was anxiously waiting to sign the Irish to a TV deal.
So much for that “one network willing to perpetuate the myth that ND is something special from a football standpoint” theory…..
We are special, we are different and yes people who have never attended this school have a dying allegiance to the school.
Take your Stanford education and do a little research on how poor Irish Catholics were treated when they first came to this country. Also, do a little research on how the Big Ten kept ND out of the Big Ten because of their Catholic affiliation.
Thus, when a team emerged as the “Fighting Irish” which was supposed to be an offensive insult as the premiere team in college football those poor Irish Catholics had a lot to believe in. This “Myth” was special for all those poor Irish Catholics who were dying of Cholera building the railroads, canals and the infrastructure of this country only to be treated like dirt.
I know what you are going to say…”That was like a billion years ago.” I hear that all the time from ND detractors.
The fact is, for all those Irish Catholic families out there we do believe in this University and as you so ignorantly put it….”myth” that is ND football.
You laugh at the people who never attended a single class but still live and die with every block and every tackle. However, if a person is an Irish Catholic and doesn’t live and die with every tackle they are spitting the face of their ancestors who had to endure years of hateful discrimination.
Basically what I’m trying to say is…Notre Dame Football is the greatest story of revenge in America.
I know you rolled your eyes and probably called me a jack off while reading this post. That makes me smile because I know you are annoyed by my sense of allegiance to the “Myth” of ND football. I will never let this “Myth” as you call it die because that means you and people like you have won.
I love Notre Dame and everything it stands for. I am one of those who did not attend the University of Notre Dame but proudly embrace it as my own. It is in the fabric of my family and my Irish Catholic blood. If you want to try and marginalize that notion….be my guest…but just know that ND football will live on for many generations to come. If you can find another football program that elicits as much emotion as what I’ve just posted here, I’d like to know which school that may be. This is what will always make ND different and yes….special.
In our hearts forever, love thee NOTRE DAME!!!!
Frankie,
What’s the record for posts? I’m about to run out of crying towels to hand out to these Superior Harbawl fans.
It’s no wonder he denounced his own University’s Academics. However, they (Michigan) don’t like Harbawl’s American Tourister commercials either. I just wonder how did he passed Stanford’s Superiority Bar coming from Michigan? Now that’s truely unique in it’s own merit, especially in an environment of exclusive elitists superior to all others. Doesn’t seem rational?
CWatemyhomework,
I’m an empty nester, I sold all our diapers and bibbs in a yard sale.
If our National TV contract is your “golden goose” chief complaint? Obviously an ultrasophisticated approach we haven’t heard before. Be our guest, go ahead an give your “car sales” pitch on Superior Stanford to all the networks, let us know how that works out for you.
All you Stanford people who have come here for whatever reason, I hate to burst your bubble, but Notre Dame is completely on par with Stanford academically. If you look at the last ten years, Notre Dame’s academic requirements and quality of education are at the top tier. Those who say otherwise are looking at older data. The Ivy league, Duke, UVA, Northwestern, Stanford, Berkley, Cal Tech, MIT…..These universities are virtually indistinguishable in the prestige an quality of education. Anyone who says otherwise is splitting hairs.
Yes, Palo Alto is nice, but there are many beautiful things about Notre Dame’s campus. And go up North along the Michigan coast. Simply Gorgeous. And it’s not so expensive that you have to be an AIG exec to get by. I lived in California and while everyone was peace and love, I felt like they’d pick your pocket if it meant they’d have an extra buck to stay in the land of sunshine. Kind of a fake Christianity. But it is an alluring place.
CWatemyhomework,
“Humans need to believe in something, I guess.”
Yes, I agree, narcissism must be your bible.
In the future, don’t eat your home work, you might learn you are just a human from this galaxy and this planet.
“it’s” nice to be human. Old superior one.
“and” old superior one. Damn, it nice to be human.
Darn, there I go again, it should “an” elitist instead of and old superior one.
Awe Gee,
University, I stand corrected superior one.
I’m glad we are down to some typos old superior one, never happens at Superior Stanford. By the way, is your cranium half full or half empty?
A neophyte defense. Did I spell that correctly? Sorry, you don’t want it to work. Try Google for Liberty Univerity. If you are truely and elitist, this can not be a difficult discovery. Your intellectual firepower is amazing.
JC – Debate rankings? Since the link doesn’t work I assume you cannot be serious. But given the number of misspelingz and wild-a## assertions in your posts, maybe you are.
Notre Dame is a safety school for most Stanford applicants. Notre Dame’s football program accepts players who wouldn’t even be sent an application from Stanford. Most jobs don’t require much academic rigor, which is why a degree from Notre Dame *seems* to carry the same cachet as one from Stanford. However, applicants to graduate schools will generally receive better treatment if they have a degree from Stanford than from Notre Dame, all other things being equal. Just another measuring stick, if you will.
Yes, ND has its own TV contract. This proves nothing other than there is one network willing to perpetuate the myth that ND is something special from a football standpoint, and it does so because there are apparently millions of viewers with no tie to the university out there who glom onto that myth. Humans need to believe in something, I guess. Might as well be an overrated football team. Or maybe we’re all just bored on Saturdays, and don’t mind watching Notre Dame lose.
Objectively, Notre Dame football has been overrated for years. And yet you all still hold tightly to the idea that “your” football program is something special. I mean, you guys barely beat Cal-Poly last year, right? Don’t you think there are maybe about 100 other D-1 teams that could also barely beat Cal-Poly? Don’t these teams therefore also deserve a TV contract and special BCS treatment?
What is “ludacris” is Notre Dame’s sense of entitlement, given how little it has achieved on the field in the past decade.
Amen Irish Hawk,
@StanfordTree:
Furthermore, as to “Stanford only compares itself academically to Harvard, etc.” well, gee whiz the apex of haughtiness, but we’ll go with it. If you are claiming academic superiority over ND by using another institution for measurement, I would like to interject the following:
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfmPID=13208&newsid=178
Liberty University sweeps all three categories in the National Debate Tournament Final Rankings in 06 & 07. Harvard’s highest ranking was a mere 12th. Looks like your mighty measuring stick has been humbled on more than one occasion by little Liberty University, must be a new metamorphosis of intellectualness at Liberty. Funny, I did not see Stanford anywhere in the rankings? As all employers know, academics are only one part of the equation. Character, motivation, interpersonal skills and experience cannot be over looked. Of course, I will have the insatiable urge to check-out 08 and 09 also.
Don’t throw stones in glass houses my friends, proclaimed academic superiority over other institutions and elitism is a slippery-slope of ignorance. What’s next, biological superiority? Mine’s bigger than yours?
Sorry for the delayed response but yes. The rankings that have Stanford at #3 and ND at #8. I would say that puts them in the same “galaxy.” I’m not trying to say ND has the uper hand in this academic battle all I’m saying is to sit back and say that ND isn’t even in the same galaxy is an absolute ludacris statement.
By the way….we have our own TV contract. That makes us pretty widely known worldwide…
Food for thought
Frankie,
Now that’s firebrand posting, I guess that’s why everybody loves us, they just can’t get enough. Must be extremely boring on their sight. However, these guys are indeed experiencing some serious intellectual discomfort. Needless to say, I am very impressed with their level of expertise admiring our history with baited breath. I know deep down inside they want to grow up to be like ND, and in their case rule the elitist world. Now that I’m enlighted to the fact they are superior to all others, they must have invented the new TV series “Kings.” can’t imagine they are spectators. Sure hope I am not too satirical, I wouldn’t want to be guilty of hurting anyone’s feelings.
StandfordTree,
Nice paradox, you have to compare yourself to someone else to be unique. ND is unique without comparision. I travel internationally, Stanford is not a house-hold-name compared to ND. Save your over zealous marketing for your brochures. I’ll will give you one thing, your definately elitist.
This is why you can have an enjoyable two way conversation with a farmer, you would learn something vs a one way conversation with an elitist. Go ahead be my guest and pat yourself on the back. This is good material for recruiting.
chelsea clinton and tiger woods went there. thats a good past. haha!
GCeezy,
Another laughable assertion, as I stated in my in my 1st post it probably was a simple case of not wanting to blaze dad’s trail.
It’s seems we have seriously injured your ego since you can’t seem to find your way home. I like our position in the market place, it has stood the positive test of time. We thrive on being under the microscope, it appears you don’t. Beyond academic arrogance what’s so special about Standford? Do even have a past worth mentioning?
Stanford only compares itself academically to Harvard, Yale, MIT. Why? Because for the students that are admitted and choose not to attend Stanford, those are the schools that the majority attend. Stanford is unique in that it truly is elite in academics and athletics. Stanford has had more Olympians in the past two games than any other university. Stanford is fast approaching 100 NCAA team titles (second only to Ucla). And, Stanford has won the Director’s Cup for best overall athletics program for 15 years in a row.
Stanford academics are not on par with ND. Its superior. Check out the school rankings for US News & World Reports, Black Enterprise Best Schools for African Americans, etc. Stanford is consistently top 5. Stanford has greater diversity and has a 7.6% admit rate, a huge endowment, and strong alumni support internationally.
JC, with the number 1 ubiquitous brand, a national TV deal, a fan base that mostly includes people who’ve never been to and never will go to South Bend, huge support from alumni and decades of success, ND’s program has only produced mediocre teams at best for the past 20 years or so.
So, what does the #1 ubiquitous brand really mean? Nothing. The kids who will be frosh next year only know the ND of late. The four horseman aren’t going to win over recruits any more. Neither will Joe Montana.
That being said, why is it such a huge surprise that a kid would chose Stanford over ND? The legacy factor is just not as strong anymore, because the ND program is not the same program that it was before.
While it stinks to lose a recruit, Stanford is a fine institution (outside of their boob of a coach). It is also nice to see non ND posters with some class (and such impressive credentials ;)), which is refreshing.
CardFan,
I’m sure your ebullient over your rare scout and rival rankings, however your average star ratings are lower than ND’s coupled with I don’t see Stanford listed anywhere in ESPN’s Top 25? ND is 14 in ESPN’s Top 25.
Beyond the esoteric trivia, the bottom-line is this, regardless of our record lately, or the last twenty years, or our last National Championship (1988), or even “living in the past.” Notre Dame is still the 1# Ubiquitous Brand in College Football Worldwide hands down. It doesn’t take a road scholar or an MBA to discover this reality. Just ask NBC. Shall we apply the good doctor’s apples to oranges theory in this case? Based on that concept the ignominious statistics truely seem irrelevant, now don’t they?
Mikey G,
Entertaining expired site, try entrepreneur.com and you might learn to be a real leader instead of worrying about the bush league professional totem pole.
That lists also shows that Stanford’s top earners make about $12,000 more than Notre Dame’s? That’s pocket change when you’re talking over $200,000 a year.
As for Notre Dame not having the worldwide reputation of Stanford…Regis Philbin and Condoleeza Rice are both alumni. I don’t think anyone is going to argue that they aren’t well-known internationally, or that they aren’t proud of their ND diplomas. Stanford has…John Steinbeck? Dropout. Tiger Woods? Dropout. Granted, they’ve got a lot of alumni involved in the technology industries, but that’s arguing about apples and oranges; Notre Dame simply isn’t a tech school outside of the engineering/architecture department. Advantage, Stanford.
Don’t give us that BS about having higher standards. ND is one of the few schools that simply does not give academic scholarships. As for the quality of students, take a look at UND’s 2008 class (~3700 students):
71% are in the top 5% of their high school class. 88% were in the top 10%. They averaged 1350-1470 on the (old) SAT and 31-34 on the ACT.
Stanford is a top university, don’t get me wrong. I have nothing but the utmost respect for their academics. But don’t try and say that Notre Dame’s academics are not as good. That is crap.
I think everyone is missing Frankie’s point-that is, how does Stanford snatch a Notre Dame legacy? After all, even during 2007, we came into Stanford and beat the tar out of the Cardinals despite having two touchdowns negated, one by penalty and one by an instant replay that did NOT provide conclusive evidence that the ball touched the ground.
@ Frankie V
You say that it was Stanford beating out ND, for a ND legacy, is what is surprising to you, not that it was Stanford. But your original post was obviously not very complimentary of Stanford’s appeal to recruits, and I was trying to set the record straight. Scout ranked the #15 in the Country for the Class of ’09, so there’s obviously a lot of appeal, even to guys with great alternatives. Anywayz, all that matters is how it plays out on the field.
You mean this link right?
http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/30/college-salary-gr aduates-lead-cz_kb_0730topcolleges_slide_9.html?th isSpeed=3000
Where it shows Stanford ranks #3 and earns more than Notre Dame graduates?
The SAT curve is set to a 2400 point scale…not 1600 anymore. Just thought I would throw that out there…carry on….
Well, Bill Gates and the .com college drop-out boys who rule the business world probably were not worried much about their SAT’s as much as our good doctor in California. Contrary to popular belief, there many knowledgeable and highly successful people who do not require college to be successful in life. It is well known most college degreed people are employees not employers. Character is indeed a major factor in life at any level.
Also, to the great doctor…my sister had a 1250 and 4.3 in high school and graduated #1 in her class in high school, was an athlete and was involved in pretty much every organization at her high school and was denied by ND. This was back in 1997 too. I’m sure that standards haven’t gotten any softer since then.
For all the Card fans that are saying “No Way ND is on our level academically”….
I’m having trouble finding the link but I’m pretty sure that it was Forbes that ranked ND as #8 as the wealthiest alumni in the country. You can state your opinion all you want…but obviously the University is pretty well respected in the global market place with stats like those. If anyone can link the article I’d greatly appreciate it.
That being said, I’d much rather lose a kid to Standford than Michigan, LSU, USC or one of those sewage programs with no standards at all. It’s great to see kids choosing schools like ND, Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vandy etc.
To reference my point above…
I think Notre Dame should be a place where we can take chances on guys like a Chris Zorich or a Tony Rice. Character guys, but potential academic risks. I think it makes for great stories when they’re successful, and I’d rather be about that, than having a team full of of high scoring SAT’s. IMO, that’s what ND football should be about.
See Julius Jones and Darrin Walls.
We can’t lie and pretend as if guys with impeccable academics are also going to make great football players. That’s rarely going to be the case. Exceptions have to be made, and I don’t think that’s a terrible thing so long as you’re not admitting a bunch of criminals.
We’re stacked at wide receiver. The fact that Stanford brought in a couple 4 stars last year doesn’t put their haul near where ND is at. Tate and Floyd are proven commodities, and ND has a stable full of talented young receivers. Two unproven, incoming guys doesn’t equate to depth; a concept Notre Dame fans have become all too familiar with. Our problem will come down to the line holding up, and wonderboy being able to get them the ball.
Academically, I would not argue that Notre Dame is Stanford’s equal; but I don’t think that minimizes Notre Dame. There are plenty of guys we don’t give consideration to either. Stanford is just a great academic institution.
That said, I don’t want Notre Dame to be Stanford. I don’t want them to be USC either, but I don’t think Notre Dame should just be a place where we brag about all of our students having 4.0 GPA’s and 1600 SAT’s.
Not in the same galaxy? Now that’s a typical self-impressed diagnostic assessment, by a vainglorious Doctor impressed with his own credentials, yes, we at ND are suffering from a severe case of acatalepsia doctor. How could we not have known you are superior to all others? Lay some more iatrogenic BS on us. Do you concure DOCTOR.
@Dr. WM Rodriquenz,
If you think a student with a good 1200 SAT score has a chance to get into Notre Dame without being an athlete you are mistaken. Based on a little searching, the average SAT score for Notre Dame is currently between 1360-1400. I find it a bit ironic that you think Notre Dame fans under estimate the academic prestige of Stanford while you are doing the exact same thing towards Notre Dame.
@CardFan,
The fact that Stanford got a 4 star WR isn’t what is so surprising to me, bur rather that they got a 4 star WR whose father played for Notre Dame not so long ago. That’s the part that makes it surprising to me.
Frankie V: Please do no take this as an insult, just a reality check. Notre Dame is a great university and one of the better academic schools that play big time football. Stanford is a world class elite academic institution that is light years different in student qualifications. Probably 3-5 guys from your football team could qualify for Stanford and maybe 5-7% of the student body. that doesn`t mean they would get in, just qualified. It is not supposition, just fact. Stanford turns down hundreds of 4.0 students with 1200-1500 SAT`s on the old scale. Notre Dame probably admits 99% of people with those qualifications. My family grew up ND fans, still love the school, but Stanford and ND academically are apples and oranges, not even in the same galaxy.
Sorry to invade your board, and I have huge respect for Notre Dame. But Stanford pulled in 2 4-star WR’s last year – not to mention 3 4-star running backs – so I don’t get how this is such a big surprise. And believe me, if Harbaugh was ND’s coach, you Irish fans would love him.
I’m ND fan… but I’ve lived in Palo Alto, and father taught at Stanford.
ND provides a superior education, and probably on par to Stanford at an undergrad level, but I have to say Stanford has superior academic academic prestige.
You can say Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale all in the same breath… ND is on the next tier.
That’s just a fact.
ND, USC, Oklahoma, OSU are all peers in the football pantheon, Stanford is on the next level, at best.
That’s just a fact too.
It may not be over for TJ, but I believe he committed to Stanford more for academics than for Football.
Don’t forget that Notre Dame doesn’t have a Broadcast Journalism program, or Journalism of any kind aside from a minor. If Jones is serious about academics in that field, Stanford makes sense.
Didn’t have time to read all the comments, so I apologize if this has been brought up already.
Awe Gee Guy’s I misspelled Jim’s last name, sorry it should be:
H-A-R-B-A-W-L
You guy’s are ingnoring the fact that your whole football budget will stay in the red to meet Harbough’s addiction to depends requirements, so he can continue practice his patented diatribe skills gracefully? Maybe will we have a smoker when we get there this year and take up donations to help out on your depleted budget. Since your own blog site obviously must have shut down because of it.
@Dr. WM Rodriquenz, I think you are minimizing Notre Dame’s academics by saying Stanford is “far superior”.
@CWatemyhomework, I wouldn’t get carried away just yet with saying Stanford’s depth at WR rivals Notre Dame’s. Golden Tate and Michael Floyd are both elite wide receivers. Underneath them on the ND depth chart are Duval Kamara, Deion Walker, John Goodman, and Shaquelle Evans – Stanford can’t come close to that yet.
I’m with you JC. I recently re watched the Stanford game and I was in tears laughing at what a fool he was making of himself. I love passion….that was not it.
I went to a Thanksgiving Day game against ND one time at Stanford, and I can completely understand how someone could make that choice. Wow, what a beautiful place.
You guys are ignoring the fact that Stanford had a great recruiting class last year, including another 4-star receiver out of Georgia, giving it depth at WR that could indeed rival ND’s. So don’t automatically assume this is a playing-time move.
As for the NFL, Stanford has about 20 players in the league, so your insinuation (look it up) that to go to Stanford is to forego a career in the NFL is ludicrous.
It’s probably more that he looked at both schools and made a decision on its merits. Choosing Stanford is the logical choice for an objective observer: ridiculously better academics, amazing location, and a program on the rise, rather than one living in the long-past glory days. Tough for a domer to take, but them’s the breaks.
Academically, CW can get players into ND that Stanford won’t even look at. How does that make ND “on par” with Stanford academically? Stanford is consistently ranked in the top 4 in the country, and ND is what, top 20? Is that really the same thing?
FWIW, Stanford`s recruiting has been outstanding for 2009 and 2010. The Pac 10, the campus, and far superior academics to even Notre Dame are drawing cards along with the excellence of the coaching. Some on this board have not seemed to notice that Stanford has played USC, Oregon, ND, Oregon St. pretty evenly recently without comparable talent. That talent is now on campus or will shortly be; some of you may be very surprised and a bit stunned at what will be happening with Stanford football in the near future.
Why are these tree supporters even reading a Notre Dame website?
@ Luda,
Passionate? Out-of-control-anger and throwing things. Passionate? Good luck with your blind date.
@Stan4d,
Notre Dame’s academics especially for undergrad are absolutely on par with Stanford. If you look at many programs, Notre Dame is now ranked in the top 25 and in the top 5 for some. That’s a virtual dead heat for undergraduate programs. Plus since both Stanford and Notre Dame are small private schools, the undergrad gets access to professors, not TAz. I would never rip on Stanford’s academics, only the anti-Catholic antics of their band.
This kid will be fine there and probably wants to be secure as a number 1 receiver. He might figure that he doesn’t want to go to the NFL and so wants to have breathing room to study more. Less competition at his position will allow him some coasting room.
And good for him if that’s the case. Remember, Ken McAffee, Montana’s tight end on the 1977 chanpionship team? Played 3 years for the 49ers, made pro-bowl and retired, becasue all he really wanted to do was become a dentist. A better life than hanging out with drug lords and hookers and guys like T.O.
It’s no big deal. Nobody in the country is deeper at WR than ND. Quality Receivers and Tight Ends from top to bottom. At least he was smart enough not to go to USC. I loved it when Stanford beat USC a couple years ago. Ol slippery Pete was almost in tears. Maybe he can help them do it agian.
To our Stanford fans, no one has said the academics are exactly equal, but surely even most Stanford fans have to be surprised to pull a ND legacy out of the South over Notre Dame and the list of other schools Jones was considering. As I posted, for as much as I can’t stand Harbaugh, I have to give him some credit here for the job he’s done recruiting.
its laughable that you guys place notre dame academics on the same level as stanford.
Stanford is just “a little” ahead of Notre Dame in academics? I mean, I know you’ve got us in football, even though the ND program has not been pretty average and severely over-hyped over the past two decades, but really… One could go anywhere in the world and eyes would widen when they’d tell someone that they have a degree from Stanford University. The same cannot be said for Notre Dame.
Not only that – going to Stanford means that you play ND and USC every year. A world-class education along with competing with and amongst the best shouldn’t be such a surprising choice.
BTW, last year ND didn’t exactly dominate this “average program” at home. And when was the last time ND won at the Coliseum? We’ve won 3 of the last five down there 😉
Embarrassment? How about a passionate, beloved coach?
Did anyone capture video on Harbaugh’s childish- tazmainium-fits from last year’s game? It would be fun to revisit. Might be a great recruiting video for recapturing Stanford commits by letting them know what they are in for: Total embarrassment on National TV.
Stanford and ND on par academically? I have respect for ND as a university and I’d never put it down, but they’re not on the same level academically. As for football, there’s no question that Stanford’s had a rough start to the new century, but many agree its worst days are behind it. Look for Stanford to catch up with the Irish on the field, not that ND has set the bar too high itself recently.
Also, for those of you dumbstruck, note the class Harbaugh hauled in last year. Top 15 with a few 4-star receivers, including one from Georgia. Jones’s commitment is not quite the anomaly many think it is.
Well, may be a simple case of not wanting to blaze dad’s trail?
@Matt,
I’m not suggesting Stanford doesn’t have a beautiful campus or outstanding academics, but when Stanford beats out the list of schools that they did for Jones, it is surprising. What makes it more surprising is that we lost out on a legacy kid this early in the process to school which offers the same combination of academics and football that we offer.
I knew the kid was smart, just didn’t think he was this smart. The only school that has a football program and academics like ND is Stanford. But that’s a stretch because their program is the most average of all-time. ND is only a little bit behind them in academics but so far ahead of them on the football field.
Just wondering but have you guys ever been to Stanford? The campus is beautiful year round and is near a great city in San Francisco. Plus the school has academics on par with Notre Dame. I can’t fault Jones for going to Stanford. Granted I hope he switches to ND once we beat the living crap out of Stanford but at least he is putting education first.
He is going to change his mind halfway through the season. There’s no way he is going to turn down every other program for Stanford just because he doesn’t want to wait a year.
I’d bet the kid wants to play right away, and doesn’t like his chances of getting past Tate & Floyd on the depth chart.