While a small majority of college football coaches are in search of the best talent available when it comes to recruiting, the majority are searching to fill specific needs. Mark Dantonio(MSU), for example, would be one of those coaches who look to fill a primary need. Constantly struggling against power house programs such as Michigan, Notre Dame, and Ohio State, Dantonio struggles to win the recruiting battle even in his own state, let alone the Midwest, or on a national level. So instead of angrily embracing a David versus Goliath mindset, Dantonio chooses to recruit specifically for team needs, and approach kids who have a desire to come Michigan State. While many fan-bases may not consider this a ‘sexy’ approach, Dantonio has a combined record of 75-31 while at Michigan State, and added an impressive comeback bowl victory against a #5 Baylor squad, a squad that many felt should have been included in the four-team college football playoff scenario.
How does any of this apply to Brian Kelly, or his approach to recruiting these days? Simple, Brian(and staff) has gravitated to finding three and four star athletes who want to attend Notre Dame for the right reason, and while a lot of these kids may come with less hype and fan-fare, the majority of them are also less problematic. It’s not that Brian Kelly has some aversion to blue-chip athletes, but if you look at the recent history of his recruitment of them, you will see a combination of some good, bad, and very ugly situations. Here is a list over the last five years of the five-star recruits who either have attended, are attending Notre Dame, or were committed to the Irish at some point.(evaluations from Rivals)
- Greg Bryant
- Max Redfield
- Eddie Vanderdoes
- Jaylon Smith
- Gunner Kiel
- Stephon Tuitt
- Ishaq Williams
- Manti Te’o
Now the goal isn’t to degrade or reduce what each of these kids has accomplished at Notre Dame, or the respective school they eventually ended up at. The goal is simply to point out that a coaching staff’s time, energy, and resources seem to be better spent aggressively seeking out the right type of kid(Irish fans love that term) for the program, and not necessarily the ones who carry the highest evaluation(s).
With just a little over a month away before signing day, the 2015 Irish recruiting class contains not a single five star recruit who has given his verbal. Sure it’s easy to look at Alabama or Florida State and recognize the fact they have a combined nine of them, but if you look at Oregon, Notre Dame, USC, and Ohio State, they have a total of one between them all. It’s all about approach, scheme, needs, and philosophy when it comes to the type of recruit that will fit well into a specific program, and many believe that Brian Kelly finally has figured out exactly the type of kid he wants in South Bend, and the type he can attract.
So while many fans are passionate about the idea that Notre Dame’s on-field success is somehow predicated on the signing of multiple five-star recruits(if any), trust us when we say, it is not. How can we be so cemented in our opinion that the signing of multiple five-star recruits are not a necessity to reach the pinnacle of college football success? One has to look no further than the championship game that will be played this Monday. The combined total of five-star recruits that will be on the field in some capacity, representing either Ohio State or Oregon – a total of 8(6-OSU 2-Oregon) out of 160-plus athletes.
So as national signing day approaches, appreciate the young men who have committed to the hard work, dedication, and sacrifice that it takes to succeed at Notre Dame, both on and off the field, and worry less about the ‘star’ that is attached to their name. As a great man once said “Don’t worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition” Those with that mindset are the type of young men that make a program truly special.
Ever since Notre Dame fired Holtz, Notre Dame football has been the biggest joke in college football.
Notre Dame must hire a celebrity coach ( Joe Montana, Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice ) to attract the 5 STARS athletes whom will propel Notre Dame from 35 to top 10. Notre Dame must also rectify its Jim Crow campus.
at least he knows the mission
“I’ve made it pretty clear what my choices are. I want to be in college football. And I want to take Notre Dame back into being a consistent player,” Kelly told SVP & Russillo. “We’re not there yet, but I think we’re getting closer to it. We’ve got unfinished business. And I’ve got unfinished business at the college ranks. And I want to finish that business off with a national championship. That’s my focus. That’s where I want to be.” bk
source bleacher
I watched the interview.
Did you enjoy Seth Rogans performance?
“Who let the dawgs out?” (who who who who who)
I detect a chowda accent?? You from Boston by any chance??
Proudly, Ron. (; (but my Boston pride halts with those pesky little Eaglettes)
Scout and Rivals at 4
Better luck next time
But National signing day isn’t sponcered, promoted,or broadcast by Scout or Rivals.
ESPN is what everyone tunes into and goes by.
Well… almost everyone.
it would be so much easier if George would reply to the actual conversation rather than just aimlessly around the board.
Point well made. There are tons of kids playing at mediocre or poor high school programs that college coaches don’t really know about. A5star might be really good because he’s can’t be triple teamed or run away from etc. give me a kid that has desire and some skill over a trouble making star recruit!
Point well mad. There are tons of kids playing at mediocre or poor high school programs that college coaches don’t really know about. A5star might be really good because he’s can’t be triple teamed or run away from etc. give me a kid that has desire and some skill over a trouble making star recruit!
Of the guys on your list who have finished their college careers one was a Heisman runner up and the other was a second round draft pick. Not bad. I like that Jaylon Smith kid a lot too. Bryant is still young but played well late. Redfield’s a first year starter. Ishaq will be a big contributor next year. Vanderdoes and Kiel are also good they’re just playing somewhere else. So it’s not like a list full of busts.
Also the TCU analogy (made in the comments not the article) doesn’t work. Patterson was 7-6 in 2012 and 4-8 in 2013. He would have never seen 2014 at ND.
We could poke holes in this article all day long
The recruiting is a strength. The coaching is not.
What I agree with here, is that getting 3-4* guys that stay at ND is better than high 4-5*s that never make it on campus or leave after a year. AKA Davonte Neal, Gunnar Kiel, Aaron Lynch, Tee Shepard, Eddie Vanderdos…. Not to mention the ones that were last minute flips like Greenbury and Darby. Those losses hurt. All the resources and time spent recruiting them. I’ll take a less talented guy that WANTS to be at ND vs a top end guy who’s a flight risk. That all being said, talent can’t be coached.
I think Brian Kelly is a good recruiter. I found recruiting data on Scout.com for incoming football classes back to 2002. [I don’t know how
Scout.com recruiting rankings compare to other services such as Rivals.com.] Using the data provided by Scout.com, I calculated the average recruiting ranking for several college football coaches and the results are interesting. For each coach, I discarded the first year recruiting ranking as usually that class is mostly from the previous departing coach and is not representative of the recruiting capabilities of the new coach.
Brian Kelly has an average recruiting ranking of 8.75 so he usually is in the top 10 each year. This is quite good. Kelly’s average recruiting rankings are not quite as good as those of Les Miles (LSU), Nick Saban (LSU and Alabama), Pete Carroll (USC), Jimbo Fisher (Florida State), Mack Brown (Texas), Gene Chidzik (Auburn), or Urban Meyer (Florida and Ohio State). All the coaches listed above have won at least one BCS National Championship. In fact the above list includes all the winning coaches for the past 11 BCS National Championships. You have to be a great recruiter if you want to be a National Champion. Given the ND academic constraints he operates under, Kelly’s doing great in recruiting.
But, it’s the results that haven’t followed. Except for the 2012 season when we played in the National Championship game, every other year we have had 4 or 5 losses, and each year there have been losses that should never have occurred. Kelly is close to an elite recruiter but the results suggest that his recruiting doesn’t translate to results on the field as it has for these other coaches. There must be something in his coaching style or scheme that makes the team less successful than they should be given the talent level.
But you’re missing the point. According to this article and the posters here supporting it, the objective is to NOT land top recruits. ND apparently does better with lesser talent, so says the 5 loss season.
The whole rating system and the grading of the college recruiting classes are bunk. Every year there are more 3 star players drafted in the 1st round of the NFL draft than 5 stars. Why play the games, just declare the team with the most 5 stars the
National Champions. Keep up the good work ND.
You do raise a good point. I think it’s more of a matter of ND having to get the right kind of guys and lots of them, recruiting rankings be damned. I like this type of recruiting, because this way we end up with ~25 commits that want to be here and will most likely stay put in South Bend, rather than 20 commits in which 5-10 of them are constantly at risk to leave school.
The only reason there’s more 3 star guys drafted than 5 star guys is because there are many more 3 star guys than 5 star guys. On a percentage basis, 5 star guys are more likely to get drafted than 3 star guys.
Tom Burns should tell Leonard Fournette that his 5 star ranking is meaningless. Actually he should tell ND’s defense. Wait, ND’s special teams unit should know about this revelation as well!
While he’s at it, he should tell William Fuller that his 3 star ranking is meaningless as well.
Here are the facts Tom:
5 star guys have a 13% of being drafted in the first round. 4 star = 4%, 3 star =1% and 2 star =.2%.
If losing five games including one to a pitiful Northwestern team and YET ANOTHER annihilation at the hands of USC is “not a problem,” then yes, I agree that ND’s lack of 5 star recruits should not be considered an issue. And I’m not convinced BK prefers 3 star athletes “who want to attend Notre Dame for the right reason” over 5 star athletes. Not by a long shot. No coach goes out of his way to find less talented athletes. The more common scenario is when a coach fails to land the more talented athlete, we hear the “well I preferred the other guy anyway” theme.
It wasn’t a lack of 5-star athletes that did ND in at the end of the season. The problem was a lack of depth and leadership. You know what I find very ironic about your argument, is that possibly the biggest injury this team suffered was from a former walk-on LB.
There are a lot of reasons this year was a total disappointment, lack of leadership ranking last. But actually I don’t believe ND needed many 5 stars to have won 10 or 11 games this year, not with their very manageable schedule. My point was more in regards to the “not a problem” phrase and its implication that the past couple of seasons have been acceptable.
The data you cite does not support your conclusion. That there are 8 guys who are 5*s on the 2 teams suggests that having those guys are important to success. Also, the list of 5*s at ND you noted were all great players.
The truth is it is not just not getting 5* guys. A lot of the guys on defense are not even 4* guys. “RKG” or “coach em up” are just deflections of the truth. Being 3* does not make one a RKG. We’ve seen just as much controversy from 3* guys as 5*s. Whether or not the coaches can “coach em up” is a sunk cost. That’s a separate issue from getting good recruits.
On offense, particularly the OL, they continue to reel them in. Skills positions on offense are still pretty good, but they need more big-time WRs. On defense, there are too few stars, too few commits, and it is a pattern that seems to be beginning to tell in the program’s on-field results. We’ve staved it off robbing Peter to pay Paul by converting offensive recruits to defense, but you can only get away with that for so long before it adversely impacts offensive recruiting.
But we would be amiss if we failed to mention the application of utilizing two 3* PGG’s (Pretty Good Guys) in a strategic platooning rotation that nets a combined 6* output.
While this obviously requires additional “coach em up’s” it does aid in balancing the depth ledger with minimal controversy at a deflective skunk cost.
Of course there is always the possibility of the wild card with the No star 0* walk on or “RRD” (Rudy Ruettiger Dude) which clearly flatulates in the face of the entire star rating system blowing the lid off the normal recruiting commodeus operandi thus allowing the staff to pass on Peter and punt on Paul dominoing the opening up additional scholarships for possible 5th years hold-overs or “FYH’s”
Someone’s read their Joyce.
too bad Fuller was a 4*
nice try though
ESPN had him at 3
Nice try though
So you really don’t need a bunch of 5* guys?
Thanks for proving our point.
Too bad that was never my argument. All I was saying is that BK does not go out of his way for lesser talent because lesser talent is more prone to come to ND for the “right reason,” or because lesser talent is less likely to have off the field issues. This, along with the implication that the past couple of years have been acceptable is what this article is stating, and I disagree with it. Of course 3 star guys can flourish, but your apparent theory that BK does/should/wants to target 3 stars OVER 5 stars is unfounded. All you’re doing is looking at the roster after the fact, seeing few 5 stars and saying “Oh, well we didn’t want those 5* guys anyway.” And that’s laughable. It’s the same thing when a player transfers. We hear all that “didn’t want you anyway” talk. When Golson got busted, several posters were eager to say good riddance there too. Then he comes back and they change their tune. It’s humorous actually.
Is this a serious post?
But National signing day isn’t sponcered, promoted,or broadcast by Scout or Rivals.
ESPN is what everyone tunes into and goes by.
Well… almost everyone.
Serious in that it shows that recruiting services and star rankings are highly speculative, vary greatly, are open for personal interpretation, and are designed more for the fans.
I doubt most coaches use them as the final evaluation of talent, to project growth and potential, or as a deciding factor on whether or not a player has the long term potential they are looking for, is coachable, fits their programs style and culture, will benefit team chemistry, and can fill the needs of the team whatever they may be.
In that sense that article is correct.
Kelly will and has, passed on 5* talent for a number of reasons not the least of which is… it is Notre Dame.
The possibility of off field issues IS a factor.
As is academics.
If the player does have the grades to even get into the school his star ranking and talent is pointless.
If he doesn’t show the ability to be able to maintain an acceptable GPA, to recruit and/or sign him is a waste of time, money, and effort, for both the school, coaching staff, and player.
If the right kind of 5* guy is out there, Kelly will pursue him.
If not, he will move on.
It depends on when you’re talking about. If you’re referring to Kelly’s earlier classes, then I agree. They just weren’t getting the bodies on defense and it directly affected this season. However, that has changed starting in 2014. They got the bodies up front with guys like:
2014:
Hayes, Trumbetti, Blankenship, Cage, Mokwuah, Bonner, Williams on the line with Morgan, Martini and Hill at LB.
2015:
Tillery, Dew-Treadway, Tiassum, Taylor on the line and Bilal, Coney, Wallace and Barajas at LB.
In the matter of 2 seasons, that’s 11 D-Linemen and 7 LB’s. And this class is fixing any depth concerns in the secondary with Crawford, Coleman, White, McKinney, Fertitta, Williams and most likely a 7th to be named later.
Kelly is taking the RKG route to fixing the issues of depth on defense. It may not be filled with glamourous 5-star guys, but Kelly and co. are among the best when it comes to evaluating talent and scooping them up under the cover of night.
Its all about the COACHING. Holtz made just about EVERYONE a 5-star guy ESPECIALLY in the second half of a game !
It’s all about that BASS
Pretty fishy Ron
No Treble
No treble.
No trouble.
Apparently nobody listens to new music.
I get it Ron. I was just trying to give you a bit of your own medicine.
It’s all about that action, boss
I think Holtz had 4 number 1 ranked classes in a row. I am sure that included a bunch of 5 stars.
Holtz had mostly 6 and 7 star guys who never lost a game while at ND. However, that pales compared to what Ara used to recruit. Remember that amazing year he signed 33 ten star guys!
Ron – out the pen down. Slowly back away from the table…
“right type of kid” (Irish fans love that term)
HUH! My good friend and fellow Irish enthusiast, the correct term: (which I’ve been working with for 5-yeears, now)
“RKG” – Right Kinda Guy
Egad. 10 Hail Mary’s for you!
10 Hail Marys! Tough with your reconciliation, HURLS! And don’t forget to remind him he still owes a good Act of Contrition; then UHND’s all forgiven.
Right-on. After all, who the hell am I to argue with an archangel? (;
Missed one 5-star – OL Quenton Nelson. If you’re using Rivals. Great article though. I have been saying this to a few people. TCU was 26th, 30th, 50th the past 3 yrs in recruiting and looked unreal in their bowl game.